Classes & Levels

Acta Est Fabula · April 03, 2012, 12:57:52 PM

Quote from: beeber;526350what's the differences betw. his and EGG's material?

honest question, i came into the hobby w/ moldvay basic. . . .

Dave was the one who introduced a lot of the core concepts of the game, from dungeon exploring, classes, a neutral referee (DM), hit points, assuming the role of one character (talking as the character would talk), etc.

Too bad Gary tends to get all the credit for inventing RPGs, when it was actually Dave who brought it from "mini-wargaming" to "role-playing"

Marleycat · April 03, 2012, 01:07:28 PM

Quote from: ggroy;526113No classes and no levels = no D&D = a really crappy version of Runequest using a d20 (instead of d100).

:banghead:

Pretty much.

Silverlion · April 03, 2012, 04:43:16 PM

Quote from: Marleycat;526353Pretty much.

Unexamined assumptions etc...

Sometimes you've got to take a look at what people really think, and that means asking questions.

Marleycat · April 03, 2012, 04:48:12 PM

Quote from: Silverlion;526432Unexamined assumptions etc...

Sometimes you've got to take a look at what people really think, and that means asking questions.

I am just in agreement that without classes and levels it is not Dnd to me it where I draw the line. No vancian magic fine, other stuff fine. But without classes and levels it just doesn't feel right to me. It's part of Dnd to talk about your 45th level Paladin/Wizard to some person that has not one clue what an rpg is, it's part of the fun.

RPGPundit · April 04, 2012, 05:07:11 AM

Classes and levels are absolutely needed for the game to be definable even in the most general sense as "D&D".

RPGPundit

Spinachcat · April 04, 2012, 05:30:03 AM

Quote from: Silverlion;526266I'm just musing on the general Sacred Cows of D&D and which ones need to be kept for D&D relatives.

What I find interesting is what is "sacred cow" in the reading of a D&D edition versus the playing of a D&D edition.

Classes & Levels may be sacred cows, but in actual play during a game session you are neither focused on either your character's class or their level. It simply exists to define the parameters of what powers / skills / martial might you can bring to the encounters.

The class of "Magic-User" was special when it was the only one who could cast arcane spells. By 3e, there were a plethora of classes who invaded this niche.

And "low level" has its own conundrums. In OD&D, a 4th level character was mid-level, but in 2e he was low-level and in 4e he was a noob.

Silverlion · April 04, 2012, 09:19:45 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;526640What I find interesting is what is "sacred cow" in the reading of a D&D edition versus the playing of a D&D edition.

And "low level" has its own conundrums. In OD&D, a 4th level character was mid-level, but in 2e he was low-level and in 4e he was a noob.

Indeed. I find it interesting as well--especially the points you make about level differences. The frame of the game is not the same as actual play of the game. I've always known that from playing as long as I have.

Marleycat · April 04, 2012, 10:29:07 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;526640What I find interesting is what is "sacred cow" in the reading of a D&D edition versus the playing of a D&D edition.

Classes & Levels may be sacred cows, but in actual play during a game session you are neither focused on either your character's class or their level. It simply exists to define the parameters of what powers / skills / martial might you can bring to the encounters.

The class of "Magic-User" was special when it was the only one who could cast arcane spells. By 3e, there were a plethora of classes who invaded this niche.

And "low level" has its own conundrums. In OD&D, a 4th level character was mid-level, but in 2e he was low-level and in 4e he was a noob.

This is spot on but I'm defining both class and level in a general sense for this discussion.