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Classes & Levels

Started by Silverlion, April 02, 2012, 10:18:34 PM

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thedungeondelver

#15
April 03, 2012, 01:35:34 AM
Quote from: Silverlion;526059Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?

Classes and levels are necessary for AD&D.  I don't know what is necessary to make a game that isn't D&D into D&D.  The closest thing to AD&D I have played that isn't AD&D is Warhammer Fantasy Role Play.  But WHFRP has very clearly delineated classes, Exits and Entries notwithstanding.

However, the goal of WHFRP from the trigger end is to keep the players down in the shit, and if they think they have "it", take it away from them and knock them down again.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

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Claudius

#16
April 03, 2012, 02:30:38 AM
Quote from: Silverlion;526059Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?
Yes, absolutely. They are necessary not only for D&D; there is a certain kind of fantasy I cannot imagine without classes and levels. For example, I wouldn't want a Rolemaster without classes and levels.
Grając zaś w grę komputerową, być może zdarzyło się wam zapragnąć zejść z wyznaczonej przez autorów ścieżki i, miast zabić smoka i ożenić się z księżniczką, zabić księżniczkę i ożenić się ze smokiem.

Nihil sine magno labore vita dedit mortalibus.

And by your sword shall you live and serve thy brother, and it shall come to pass when you have dominion, you will break Jacob's yoke from your neck.

Dios, que buen vasallo, si tuviese buen señor!

StormBringer

#17
April 03, 2012, 02:50:32 AM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;526150Yeah true...

With the system I was doing I had a number of disadvantages characters could choose, any of which gave a 50% cost discount. So a classed PC and a Non Classed Adventurer (NCA) could in practice have the same amount of skill ranks, except the NCAs would have various other problems with their skills instead. (they hadn't been apprenticed/belonged to a guild that would give them proper training, so they would have problems like combat skills being limited to only a few weapons, spell misfires from dodgy magic training, randomly-determined skills, etc.).
The classed characters technically had the [Linked] disadvantage on their skills, meaning they just had the problem that all their skills had to be raised at the same time.
I am not such a big fan of ads/disads, but I can see making the skills linked as a condition of the skills package discount.

But it all depends on the ads/disads in question, too.  :)
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Spinachcat

#18
April 03, 2012, 03:30:36 AM
Anything that notably deviates from OD&D doesn't feel like D&D to me. Just having classes & levels doesn't make either 3e or Rifts feel like D&D to me.

But that would never stop me from trying a cool new fantasy game. I don't need anything other than OD&D to feel like D&D to me.

jeff37923

#19
April 03, 2012, 04:25:37 AM
Quote from: Silverlion;526059Are classes and levels necessary for a D&D "feel" game?

I would say, yes.

Quote from: Silverlion;526059Is there another way to handle their strong archetype and focused power gain which would work for a D&D style "inspired" game?

I think the character archetype templates of the d6 system would work in a pinch. It is one of the strengths of the d6 Star Wars system - when you say your character is a smuggler, brash pilot, gambler, or young senatorial then anyone who has seen the movies has a good idea of who you are and what your character is capable of.
"Meh."

Darran

#20
April 03, 2012, 08:13:42 AM
Quote from: ggroy;526062D&D without classes and levels would probably feel more like Runequest.

You say that like it is a bad thing?
Darran Sims
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RandallS

#21
April 03, 2012, 08:32:51 AM
Quote from: Darran;526232You say that like it is a bad thing?

I like Runequest. However, when I want to play D&D, using the RQ rules and calling it D&D would not satisfy my D&D itch.
Randall
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JamesV

#22
April 03, 2012, 08:43:09 AM Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 08:49:25 AM by JamesV
Quote from: Spinachcat;526188Anything that notably deviates from OD&D doesn't feel like D&D to me. Just having classes & levels doesn't make either 3e or Rifts feel like D&D to me.

But that would never stop me from trying a cool new fantasy game. I don't need anything other than OD&D to feel like D&D to me.

I agree, there's more to fantasy RPGs than D&D, and that's cool but I'll say it. D&D is not D&D without classes and levels, you'd clearly be playing something else.
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Silverlion

#23
April 03, 2012, 09:32:30 AM
Pretty much the results I expected. I'm just musing on the general Sacred Cows of D&D and which ones need to be kept for D&D relatives. Mostly because there is a new one I saw for review lacking true classes and making me think "Man, what?"


Don't worry I wouldn't drop classes from a D&Dlike game. Just wondering what other people thought on the general concept. (I'm not writing one anyway--at least not any time in the next two years.)
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ggroy

#24
April 03, 2012, 10:20:40 AM
Quote from: Darran;526232You say that like it is a bad thing?

No.

I would be playing Runequest more, if I had a regular local group interested in it.

beeber

#25
April 03, 2012, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Simlasa;526092I don't like them, but I think they are the prominent frame around the experience... at least the first that comes to mind for me.
The rest of the stuff, the bits I like about D&D, I can pretty much pull off with other (non-C&L) systems.
The Classic Fantasy books for BRP seem to have garnered a good bit of popularity for capturing that residual flavor.

yep, my feelings too.  no experience with rolemaster (i own a copy of MERP, but never ran it) but that seemed like a combination of d&d and brp--classes & levels, but with lotsa skills.

beeber

#26
April 03, 2012, 10:31:14 AM
hells, rifts is just gonzo d&d, really.  classes & levels, xp and lotsa loot.

Claudius

#27
April 03, 2012, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: RandallS;526234I like Runequest. However, when I want to play D&D, using the RQ rules and calling it D&D would not satisfy my D&D itch.
This 100%. I'm a big fan of RuneQuest and BRP, but from time to time I feel the classes and levels itch, and RuneQuest cannot soothe it. The problem is, I haven't found yet my perfect class and levels game, although Dragon Age comes very close. Something with skills and feat-like special abilities, but simple.
Grając zaś w grę komputerową, być może zdarzyło się wam zapragnąć zejść z wyznaczonej przez autorów ścieżki i, miast zabić smoka i ożenić się z księżniczką, zabić księżniczkę i ożenić się ze smokiem.

Nihil sine magno labore vita dedit mortalibus.

And by your sword shall you live and serve thy brother, and it shall come to pass when you have dominion, you will break Jacob's yoke from your neck.

Dios, que buen vasallo, si tuviese buen señor!

Acta Est Fabula

#28
April 03, 2012, 12:40:49 PM
I generally prefer skill based systems, but when I want D&D, I want classes and levels.

I guess you could sum up my feelings as thus:  Remove anything that Dave Arneson came up with, and it's no longer D&D.
 

beeber

#29
April 03, 2012, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: Acta Est Fabula;526346I guess you could sum up my feelings as thus:  Remove anything that Dave Arneson came up with, and it's no longer D&D.

what's the differences betw. his and EGG's material?  

honest question, i came into the hobby w/ moldvay basic. . . .
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