I'll ask Benoist to cut the thread perhaps then - I'd say that we could take this and actually discuss RPGs from that standpoint, or namely - is the Old Testament God LN or LG?

Quote from: Rincewind1;525602I'll ask Benoist to cut the thread perhaps then - I'd say that we could take this and actually discuss RPGs from that standpoint, or namely - is the Old Testament God LN or LG?

I agree it would be interesting I suspect you already know where I'd put him in D&D's alignment graph

Quote from: Sigmund;525605I agree it would be interesting I suspect you already know where I'd put him in D&D's alignment graph

I'd actually even add a problem if he's not LE (by some interpretations). That'd put Lucifer on the Chaos vs Law.

Quote from: Rincewind1;525608I'd actually even add a problem if he's not LE (by some interpretations). That'd put Lucifer on the Chaos vs Law.

There also is evidence that "Lucifer" and "Satan" are not the same being and that "Satan" is not actually inherently evil but he's actually more like the head prosecutor in God's "court"

Quote from: Sigmund;525613There also is evidence that "Lucifer" and "Satan" are not the same being and that "Satan" is not actually inherently evil but he's actually more like the head prosecutor in God's "court"

Yeah. As well as Lucifer nor Satan are never mentioned as actual rulers of Hell (that's been pretty much Paradise Lost's invention, that got hardcoded into our culture).

There's a whole pantheon ready to go for RPGs in the Old Testament, if you make an assumption that perhaps Lord of the Host is either not 100% infallible, or that he is not LG.

Then again - compared to Carthaginian infant burning for Moloch...

Quote from: Rincewind1;525615Yeah. As well as Lucifer nor Satan are never mentioned as actual rulers of Hell (that's been pretty much Paradise Lost's invention, that got hardcoded into our culture).

There's a whole pantheon ready to go for RPGs in the Old Testament, if you make an assumption that perhaps Lord of the Host is either not 100% infallible, or that he is not LG.

Then again - compared to Carthaginian infant burning for Moloch...

Heh... ok, back to work for me!

First of all, this is a great thread. Thanks to everyone who's posted (and posting)!

Regarding Dragonlance. I stand by my former assessment, that it's badly written. However, I do understand how the authors may have appealed to certain key aspects of the adolescent psyche, as Windjammer so eloquently pointed out (which is certainly not the same as Imperator's "being immature" or my own "not knowing any better").

Regarding the pulp greats and literary "brilliance". You're all right, and this is probably a bit of residual conceit on my part (I blame it on hanging out with too many humanities majors ). We are fighting over labels, though. Whether HPL is "more brilliant" or "less brilliant" than, say, Marcel Proust, probably doesn't even make sense as a question. I try to keep a balanced literary diet, though, and make room for all sorts of interesting books.

Nonetheless, I do stand by my former assessment, that certain writers (Clark Ashton Smith, Jack Vance and Gene Wolfe) stand head and shoulders above even greats like REH and HPL, when it comes to the actual ability in making the English language your absolute devoted bitch.

Also, I agree with misterguignol's observation on Howard (i.e. the non-Conan characters tend to be more interesting); probably because Conan was hugely popular with the readers, driving the editor to demand more and more Conan stories. One can imagine that Howard wrote the later Conan tales because he needed the money, and the other characters and their yarns as inspiration seized him. (It's probably not that simple, though.)

And on the subject of Lamb, Howden-Smith and Mundy, I've read about all these authors somewhere (Grognardia?) and I've been particularly interested in picking up one of the Harold Lamb ("the American Dumas!") compilations for a while now (no idea which one, because all of them seem kick-ass, so I welcome recommendations).

Quote from: Rincewind1;525602I'll ask Benoist to cut the thread perhaps then - I'd say that we could take this and actually discuss RPGs from that standpoint, or namely - is the Old Testament God LN or LG?

Create a specific thread and link to this part of the conversation. I don't think it's necessary to cut the conversation here.

Quote from: Melan;525577I have, and I maintain my claim.

You... you.... Monster!!!

Quote from: Benoist;525162I love me some Solomon Kane for instance. If you like the idea of the swashbuckling, gun flinging Puritan travelling in a land filled with curses and magic, a strange man that is too righteous for his own good, and ends up in countless adventures in a variety of settings, you'll like this a lot.

I recommend reading the Del Rey compilation. It also includes drafts of unfinished stories, ideas and bits of poetry that give access to the bigger picture of REH's writing. It's not all brilliant, but there are some great keepers in there. If you bite into Solomon Kane, you'll be able to move on to Conan and Kull without problem, IMO.

Solomon Kane has the distinction of being the only REH character to appear in a movie that (a) was sorta kinda like the book and (b) didn't suck.

Quote from: misterguignol;525295I ended up getting two best-of REH (I figured that way I would get a mix of Kane, Conan, and Kull) and a Horror Stories of REH (which also contains Worms of the Earth).  Thanks for the recommendations, guys!  Looks like I've got some reading ahead of me...

Hey, when you get to it, let me know what you think of "Black Canaan", eh? It should be in the Horror Stories of REH anthology.

Quote from: Géza Echs;525958Hey, when you get to it, let me know what you think of "Black Canaan", eh? It should be in the Horror Stories of REH anthology.

Will do.  I'll read that one first in fact.  I know it a bit by reputation; it'a all about voodoo and weird racial notions, right?

Quote from: Rincewind1;525602I'll ask Benoist to cut the thread perhaps then - I'd say that we could take this and actually discuss RPGs from that standpoint, or namely - is the Old Testament God LN or LG?

Isn't he more LE?

I mean he encourages, slavery, genocide, stoning people that don't agree with him, he asks his followers to sacrifice their children to him, he allows his follows to be tortured, molested and covered in boils just to see if they will crack and he encorages incest....

just sayin.....

Someone upthread asked about old-school D&D Novels - Andre Norton's Quag Keep (which was written after she played a few sessions of D&D with Gary when he visited her and her family just up the street a ways from me, albeit 36 years ago ).

It's an odd book that stands at a crossroads of "Wow this is really good", "ha...what?" and "ugh, this is terrible."

The sequel is shit.  Avoid, avoid, avoid.

I'd have to say that to me, not counting the Taladas bit (which I consider a separate setting), Dragonlance has to be the worst TSR setting.

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