RPGs: whimsy, mystery, fantasy, folklore, imagination, make-believe, fun, socialising.

RP gamers (and yes I am one of them): anal-retentive, computer programmers, engineers, bean-counters, pedants, loners, aspies.

This paradox has always fascinated me.

I'm not so sure...
Up until just a few years ago most all of the people I'd played with were artists, writers, poets, potheads. NOT a particularly anal-retentive group of folks. 'Optimization' for them had more to do with names, backstories and wardrobe. I was GM a lot back then so I picked a set of rules I liked... most of them didn't seem to care as long as it didn't get too crunchy. (I was definitely on the uptight end of that spectrum)
I had a friend who had a long-running Vampire campaign and none of the folks I met from her group seemed at all anti-social or numbers driven. Certainly not mainstream, but not a bunch of smelly outcasts either.

The group I've been playing with lately though... a mathematician, a computer geek with OCD, a guy with a mechanical pencil collection. Generally much more interested in rules minutiae... and (IMO) somewhat less imaginative. Still a fun group to play with... but much more tame. Their outside interests also seem a LOT narrower... and more homogenized. I definitely feel like odd man out sometimes.
(EDIT: Now that I reread that it sounds like I'm arrogantly saying I stand out from these tech guys because I'm more imaginative or something... when really I just meant I feel odd in the group sometimes because I don't share a lot of their interests)

My gaming groups have also been a mixed bag of jobs/personalities. My current group has two librarians, a chemistry teacher, Spanish teacher, computer programmer, accountant for a construction company, a barber, a video editor and myself, a graphic artist/journalist.

However I have seen the groups Shadow talks about. I think they come about when the GM begins to run for a few friends at work and they continue to recruit only from their office or people who directly interact with their office.

False dichotomy. RPG sessions are not all as you describe, nor are gamers.

For example games like GURPS and Hero require ridiculous amounts of attention to detail, and reward anal-retentive rules lawyers.

And even those gamers who are as you describe, well human beings are not one-dimensional. For example, the person who spends their work day agonising over technical details may enjoy a little whimsical fantasy in the evenings for a change, like a ditch digger who goes home and reads philosophy.

When your argument begins with two wrong assumptions out of two, it has nowhere useful to go, sorry.

One can infer from the OP what sort of gamers he's used to.

Might be a regional thing.

QuoteRP gamers (and yes I am one of them): anal-retentive, computer programmers, engineers, bean-counters, pedants, loners, aspies.

Talk about a losing crew of people you hang out with...

I host four groups of gamers at my residence and they are mostly energetic, intelligent, athletic, college grads (some are still in college), a few are retired military, professionals, outgoing, and just fun to hang out with.

Now, I will admit about a year ago, I hosted a group of gamers at the gaming store but that came to a quick end because two engaged in a fist fight over issues with magic items, one became homeless, and the other was smoking something wierd.  That is what I get for forming a group at a gaming store...

Hmmm. I am not a loner. I do not work in computers, in fact my department barely uses computers at all. I'm definitely no engineer. I don't think I'm anal retentive, or pedantic-but hell other people make those decisions about a person.

Only one guy in my group works in computers, and he's one of the most creative imaginative people I know. He's also an avid outdoors-man, who is also something of amateur  photographer, musician and a kayaker.

So maybe this example is accurate in your hood-but around here? Not so much. Me and two other cats work in law Enforcement; several of us are Veteran's; one guy works computers; one cat works as a Kitchen manager/Chef/ Full Time Musician who's regionally pretty successful; another cat works in the Wood Working/Construction Industry-he hand makes and designs bars and poker tables that are frickin' awesome; another two cats work int he medical field. We even have a full time drunkard-I have no idea what he does for a living other than drink.

One of my previous groups consisted completely of active duty Marines. So, I get where you're going-I just don't think you should get to caught up in thinking that way about everyone!

We have a computer guy/engineer, but he's certainly not what I'd call "bean counter" ou "anal-retentive". He's a very laid-back, casual player, witty and pleasant and a fun person to hang out with.

We have another engineer, and coincidentally or not, he's our go-to guy for rules-lawyering and min-maxing. The economy major is a close second in this.

We also have two (sometimes three) lawyers, two biologists (one of whom is in the military), two psychologists, an accountant, a designer, and of course, a doctor. It's a fairly mixed group, but united by (1) years of friendship and (2) a very, very casual (dare I say Cheetoist?) approach to gaming. Most of these guys (all guys) haven't bought a game in years. It's mostly me and one of the lawyers who keep bringing new stuff to the table, and who run most of the games.

The dichotomy is in the stereotypes only, I'm afraid.

My previous gaming group:
insurance adjuster (college grad)
homemaker (no college)
IT tech (college)
database administrator (no college)
paralegal (college)
jeweller's apprentice (no college)
defense analyst (college)

I will grant that the insurance adjuster had the most 'bean-counter' personality of the group of us, though.

My current players include:
IT tech (college)
IT tech (college)
music instructor (college)
some kind of NGO job? (college)
ATM installer (?)
high-school teacher (college)
insurance adjuster (college) (same player)
satellite comms guy (no college, ex-mil)

And for all their foibles, each one of the above is a well-adjusted, social, curious, well-read, nicely-bathed person.  No real rules lawyers amongst 'em.

Quote from: The_Shadow;500200RPGs: whimsy, mystery, fantasy, folklore, imagination, make-believe, fun, socialising.

RP gamers (and yes I am one of them): anal-retentive, computer programmers, engineers, bean-counters, pedants, loners, aspies.

This paradox has always fascinated me.

None of the latter things describe me. I'm friendly--outgoing at times, I get to know more people in my TKD classes than most of the other "lifers." I don't computer program or engineer--although are fine professions. I'm not nominally a pedant, anal-retentive, and am not Aspergers in any way. I've issues, but those are a whole other ball field.

I'm an introvert, but not a loner. There's a difference. My payers right now are an artist and a salesman. I could hardly imagine two people who could be less anal retentive.

Quote from: Serious Paul;500393another cat works in the Wood Working/Construction Industry-he hand makes and designs bars and poker tables that are frickin' awesome

Can he make your group one of those awesome game tables?

Well, of course all of us on this board, and our groups, are the exceptions. :-)

Seriously, while my division was presented without nuance, I do feel there is a tension between the worlds of imagination, and the charop/rules lawyer mentality which is very prevalent.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;500509Can he make your group one of those awesome game tables?

We've discussed it on several occasions. His one flaw is that he is a tragically cheap son of a bitch. So he wants the rest of us to kick in for parts (No problem there), and labor-some people in the group feel a little less enthusiastic about this, especially since he's mentioned several times how much he inflates his rates.

Until then I have one of the worlds coolest tables-it expands to comfortably seat ten people. Add in my laminated 2 foot by 4 foot 1 inch grid square, and a bunch of woodcraft spools-and my prohibition on electronics at the table and it all works just fine.

I think there are a variety of gamers.  However, I will note something: "creativity" does certainly exist in RPGs, but not unbridled creativity.  People who are purely unbridled in their creativity (artists, whatever) would generally tend to want to do something like drama or writing fan-fiction than something with a bunch of mechanics that restrict that creativity.

I think it makes sense, in a way, that we might have a lot of engineer-types, because the central feature of RPGs is not "creativity" but "world-creation", with structure behind it.

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