Clearly my brain got scrambled a bit by our most recent Edition Warz thread, but an idea popped into my head that I think might work.

One of the things about D&D is the eternal problem of character's HP increasing to the point that lower-level critters are no longer a credible threat. Now I know you can do the "always fighting orcs" tactic of just buffing up the orcs, but what about if the characters leveled but didn't get any more HP - like, ever - except maybe through magic items or spells (so temporary or subject to being damaged/lost)?

That way (seems to me) you'd have characters whose powers grew over time, but whe were still fragile enough that you could run a "gritty" campaign with all orcs all the time (or skellies or whatever) and keep the danger levels high without having 20HD zombies or something being needed to pose any kind of threat. You'd have the added bonus of PCs being able to cut through swathes of low-level baddies as their powers/spells/abilites increased, but it would also "keep them honest" in that they wouldn't do it with impunity.

Additionally, this does away with some of the head-scratching that comes along with wondering how gaining experience makes a person as tough as a Sherman Tank eventually.

Think that might work?

I know that the GoO Game of Thrones OGL only gave 2, 3 or 4 hits per level to characters. Granted, that isn't quite what you're after, but they also had a wound system.

Quote from: Werekoala;498066Clearly my brain got scrambled a bit by our most recent Edition Warz thread, but an idea popped into my head that I think might work.

One of the things about D&D is the eternal problem of character's HP increasing to the point that lower-level critters are no longer a credible threat. Now I know you can do the "always fighting orcs" tactic of just buffing up the orcs, but what about if the characters leveled but didn't get any more HP - like, ever - except maybe through magic items or spells (so temporary or subject to being damaged/lost)?

That way (seems to me) you'd have characters whose powers grew over time, but whe were still fragile enough that you could run a "gritty" campaign with all orcs all the time (or skellies or whatever) and keep the danger levels high without having 20HD zombies or something being needed to pose any kind of threat. You'd have the added bonus of PCs being able to cut through swathes of low-level baddies as their powers/spells/abilites increased, but it would also "keep them honest" in that they wouldn't do it with impunity.

Additionally, this does away with some of the head-scratching that comes along with wondering how gaining experience makes a person as tough as a Sherman Tank eventually.

Think that might work?

This can work, yeah.

My friends who are big DnD fans designed following houserules for 3rd edition (much simplified here)

Each character's hitpoints are corresponding to his Constitution. Weapon damage is normal - but armours, besides usual AC, also grant damage reduction.

One rule we used to use:

All characters start with their Constitution in hit points.
Only fighters gain hp as they level, at a rate of their Constitution bonus. (Dwarves also gain hp, if you are using Basic D&D).
Everyone else never gains hit points.

Only did this with Basic, 1e and 2e. It should work with 3e as long as you account for Toughness some way. Not sure about 4e.

Quote from: Werekoala;498066Clearly my brain got scrambled a bit by our most recent Edition Warz thread, but an idea popped into my head that I think might work.

One of the things about D&D is the eternal problem of character's HP increasing to the point that lower-level critters are no longer a credible threat. Now I know you can do the "always fighting orcs" tactic of just buffing up the orcs, but what about if the characters leveled but didn't get any more HP - like, ever - except maybe through magic items or spells (so temporary or subject to being damaged/lost)?

That way (seems to me) you'd have characters whose powers grew over time, but whe were still fragile enough that you could run a "gritty" campaign with all orcs all the time (or skellies or whatever) and keep the danger levels high without having 20HD zombies or something being needed to pose any kind of threat. You'd have the added bonus of PCs being able to cut through swathes of low-level baddies as their powers/spells/abilites increased, but it would also "keep them honest" in that they wouldn't do it with impunity.

Additionally, this does away with some of the head-scratching that comes along with wondering how gaining experience makes a person as tough as a Sherman Tank eventually.

Think that might work?

I think you could do it but it would produce a very different game (one where characters need to carefully weigh whether to engage in each encounter). I personally like the idea of powerful characters who are still squishy (working on a similar concept in an ongoing side project).

Quote from: Werekoala;498066Clearly my brain got scrambled a bit by our most recent Edition Warz thread, but an idea popped into my head that I think might work.

One of the things about D&D is the eternal problem of character's HP increasing to the point that lower-level critters are no longer a credible threat. Now I know you can do the "always fighting orcs" tactic of just buffing up the orcs, but what about if the characters leveled but didn't get any more HP - like, ever - except maybe through magic items or spells (so temporary or subject to being damaged/lost)?

That way (seems to me) you'd have characters whose powers grew over time, but whe were still fragile enough that you could run a "gritty" campaign with all orcs all the time (or skellies or whatever) and keep the danger levels high without having 20HD zombies or something being needed to pose any kind of threat. You'd have the added bonus of PCs being able to cut through swathes of low-level baddies as their powers/spells/abilites increased, but it would also "keep them honest" in that they wouldn't do it with impunity.

Additionally, this does away with some of the head-scratching that comes along with wondering how gaining experience makes a person as tough as a Sherman Tank eventually.

Think that might work?

Nope...

You may want to check out E6 if the D&D you are using is the d20 variety.  I've wanted to get a chance to see this in action for years but haven't heard of anyone running a game I could join.

In any event, leveling up as we know it stops after sixth level in E6.

I guess it would work, but if the bad guys got one fifth level spell off at some point, everyone would be dead. If that's what you're after, then I guess good for you?

Well the bad guys would be subject to the same (or more) restrictions. There is plenty of gear, and plenty of spells, that would offer the PCs protection from higher-leve lstuff, since their abilities would be advancing like normal, jut not their HP. A guy in +5 plate is still going to get all the benefits thereof, just not the HP.

It seems like the last thing most editions of D&D need is for spellcasters to be more powerful. I think a high-level combat which is resolved entirely by which side's spellcaster gets initiative would be a bad idea.

Quote from: JDCorley;498097It seems like the last thing most editions of D&D need is for spellcasters to be more powerful. I think a high-level combat which is resolved entirely by which side's spellcaster gets initiative would be a bad idea.

It does feel a lot like Malazan Book of the Fallen though .

And all the fun and tactics'd be to eliminate the other's side spellcaster advantage - just like in the books.

Another option is trading out hit points for skill points or feats-so say every other level, or every third level you roll a hit die, like you normally would to increase hit points. The other levels give you something else X points of skills, or Y feats.

Quote from: Werekoala;498096Well the bad guys would be subject to the same (or more) restrictions. There is plenty of gear, and plenty of spells, that would offer the PCs protection from higher-leve lstuff, since their abilities would be advancing like normal, jut not their HP. A guy in +5 plate is still going to get all the benefits thereof, just not the HP.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the "game inside the game," E6. I think the most fun way to play the game is to cap level advancement at 6. After sixth, the characters keep learning new feats or whatever, but otherwise it stops.

CR 8 Monsters stay scary. Humans that can kill 20 men will never encounter a man that they would need 20 equals to take down. You never have to deal with all the goofy, world wrecking crap like 4th and 5th level spells. When the village leader comes to the 3rd or 4th level party and asks for help, it is very possible that there is no one else strong enough to help. Most of all, HP never gets out of control.

I bring up E6 as an alternative because it reducing HP as characters level has some problems. Mainly, 10th level characters vs. appropriate and fair opponents are already playing rocket tag. A full attack from a 10th level rogue or fighter has the ability to kill a CR 10 monster straight off. If spells and attacks keep getting more powerful but defenses stay the same, you are just going to increase the problem that the only thing that matters is winning initiative.

Yeah, I haven't ever played E6, but it sounds like it might address the issues in the OP.  Actually, has anyone ever tried E6 with editions other than 3?  What would that look like?