It's certainly true that most RPG art is illustration rather than ART but personally I prefer my RPG books to be illustrated by a professional illustrator than "Created" by Tracey Emin or Damien Hirst.
There seems to be a feeling that some hopeless artist (say  David C. Sutherland III who is responsible for a huge % of the 1eD&D shit art - look for the tell-tale DCS sig) somehow puts more of himself into the work its purer or has a greater blah, blah, blah, the fact of the matter is that he just isn't very good. You might not like Elmore's composition but his technique is fine he can in short draw. Sutherland couldn't draw, its not complicated it's just a lack of skill.
The fact that he was the TSR artistic director might explain a lot

If you look at modern games things are different. You can get good peices of illustration work for very little from a range of websites. An A5 line drawing comes in at about $20 and a lot of the illustrators will give you use of their existing peices for less so there is no excuse for a modern game to have sucky art (even if there wasn't a lot of excuse in the old days...)

Quote from: Cranewings;458554I think these are amazing.

Clearly, you haven't been reading the thread... no you don't!

Those GURPS covers are godawful. So glad they changed them -- I don't think I could try to convince people to try out the system with the dildo gun making everyone uncomfortable. They even have the shitty old font from the previous editions. Blech.

I will agree that GURPS art is mostly filler and almost none of it is in any way memorable. I think that's why a lot of the old D&D art stands out to me -- maybe some of it's nostalgia, but I also think illustrations like the old AD&D ones above (Paladin in Hell, the magic mouth) are distinctive and tell a bit of a story. They spark the imagination.

So much RPG art now is technically very slick and attractive, but it's just bland. Guy with a sword looking angry. Sorceress in a dress with a neckline ending at the navel and fuck-me boots looking dazed. Who cares? I leaf through my Pathfinder book and there's plenty of art that looks great, but almost nothing that inspires -- whereas I can look at something like the old Emirikol the Chaotic picture and still get inspired.

Just my view through the old rose-colored glasses or whatever.

Quote from: Insufficient Metal;458589I will agree that GURPS art is mostly filler and almost none of it is in any way memorable. I think that's why a lot of the old D&D art stands out to me -- maybe some of it's nostalgia, but I also think illustrations like the old AD&D ones above (Paladin in Hell, the magic mouth) are distinctive and tell a bit of a story. They spark the imagination.

That's probably why they are considered iconic pieces in the hobby .  Seriously, I love those pieces.

On the subject of GURPS, I saw a copy of an old MARS book at my FLGS the other night.  Real bad photoshop job mixing three different pictures together.  Blegh.

I quite like Wayne Reynolds, both in 3.x and Pathfinder. A bit busy for my tastes, but he has a certain something that makes his pieces work. Likewise, White Wolf's art direction has often been above-average, sometimes very good. So there is that.

DCS could draw well if he was given the time to do it properly. Again, Paladin in Hell and the DMG cover are technically deficient but at least interesting - the former for its light-shadow play (look at the swirling darkness in the background, for example), and the latter for the colourful vision of the City of Brass - not a photorealistic depiction; rather, something you would find on the cover of a period fairy tale book. A lot of his small pieces are substandard, but one reason for that is they are mostly sketches that literally had to be completed in a few days or so.

Quote from: islan;458590On the subject of GURPS, I saw a copy of an old MARS book at my FLGS the other night.  Real bad photoshop job mixing three different pictures together.  Blegh.

The nadir is probably GURPS Magic, which is a bunch of touched-up Poser 3D art. It's a really common bit of hyperbole on the internet to say "I could do better in my spare time," but that's one instance where I feel like I really could.

Quote from: Melan;458593I quite like Wayne Reynolds, both in 3.x and Pathfinder. A bit busy for my tastes, but he has a certain something that makes his pieces work. Likewise, White Wolf's art direction has often been above-average, sometimes very good. So there is that.

DCS could draw well if he was given the time to do it properly. Again, Paladin in Hell and the DMG cover are technically deficient but at least interesting - the former for its light-shadow play (look at the swirling darkness in the background, for example), and the latter for the colourful vision of the City of Brass - not a photorealistic depiction; rather, something you would find on the cover of a period fairy tale book. A lot of his small pieces are substandard, but one reason for that is they are mostly sketches that literally had to be completed in a few days or so.

The fact that he might have been rushed offers some leeway I guess but its a professional project he doesn't have to be rushed I can't believe that by 83 TSR didn't have the cash to get in some decent artwork for MM2 for example. It's probably not a coincidence that once DCS left TSR he found it hard to get work.

If you are doing a job professionally then be a professional about it. If I expect to get paid for a piece of work then I really ought to be competent. I am not going to pay a mechanic to fix my car if he is goign to leave it til the day I turn up to collect it and do a half-arsed job of it.

Pulsar Game's Blood of Heroes had to have had the most godawful art in it that I had seen in quite a while.  Sorry, no pics but look around; I'm sure you'll find some out there...somewhere...  

That what appeared to be the owner(s)' home brewed game universe was: A. tacked onto the rules to provide some sort of over-arching "setting," to put your game, B. this game universe was so 80-90's POWERMETALAWSOMEEXTREME that it is painful to read for anyone older than, say, 18ish and C. the art provided only went to further illustrate said POWERMETALAWSOMEEXTREMEishness  only added to this trainwreck of a book to me.

Honestly, I tried to read it.  Hell, I wanted to read it for the MEGS system alone but each and every time the art just made me put the book down after a while.  Ugh.

jibbajibba: There are no excuses for the MM2; it is simply bad in art and content alike.

This thread hasn't had enough mention of Mongoose. I tried finding images from Quintessentail Fighter online but no luck. I don't think I have it to scan as I might have gotten rid of it - the content wasn't any better than the art.
 
Here are some examples from Mongoose's version of Macho Women with Guns.
http://images.geeknative.com.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/e14-babzuka.jpg
 
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_kKjrNsGlZbE/TAkba5fhcxI/AAAAAAAAAfA/NZ70wXnZ0aM/s320/mwwg-d20.jpg
 
I get that it's a supposed to be a humorous rpg. But poorly drawn cheesecake is just slightly disturbing.
 
 
Here's an example of something that isn't great art but is effective in communicating something in the game. That's a creepy little dude.

Oh shi-, it took me a while to even see him!  :eek:

I wonder if there was anyone who had that books for months, saw that pic a dozen times, and then late one night it catches their eye...

Quote from: jibbajibba;458597The fact that he might have been rushed offers some leeway I guess but its a professional project he doesn't have to be rushed I can't believe that by 83 TSR didn't have the cash to get in some decent artwork for MM2 for example. It's probably not a coincidence that once DCS left TSR he found it hard to get work.

If you are doing a job professionally then be a professional about it. If I expect to get paid for a piece of work then I really ought to be competent. I am not going to pay a mechanic to fix my car if he is goign to leave it til the day I turn up to collect it and do a half-arsed job of it.

The value of art is subjective. Why label stuff you don't like as incompetent?

I'm not a big fan of Picasso but I don't have to say that he couldn't paint just because I don't happen to be a fan.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;458609The value of art is subjective. Why label stuff you don't like as incompetent?

PC races in AD&D are, as far as I know, supposed to have relatively symmetrical heads.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Quote from: Danger;458598Pulsar Game's Blood of Heroes had to have had the most godawful art in it that I had seen in quite a while.  Sorry, no pics but look around; I'm sure you'll find some out there...somewhere...  

That what appeared to be the owner(s)' home brewed game universe was: A. tacked onto the rules to provide some sort of over-arching "setting," to put your game, B. this game universe was so 80-90's POWERMETALAWSOMEEXTREME that it is painful to read for anyone older than, say, 18ish and C. the art provided only went to further illustrate said POWERMETALAWSOMEEXTREMEishness  only added to this trainwreck of a book to me.

Honestly, I tried to read it.  Hell, I wanted to read it for the MEGS system alone but each and every time the art just made me put the book down after a while.  Ugh.

 I don't normally post on here (though the forum is very interesting to read, especially when the swearing and name calling starts!) but felt a need to back you up as I feel your pain (currently running a supers game and about to switch to the MEG system).



Editorial meeting: "We need a cover that SELLS! What have we got?" "Well we have this thing with an orange background and the terminator, plus an exotic dancer and a grey skinned tribal tattoo guy. There's another guy with shorts on who seems to be wearing tights underneath and a ninja standing on a purple rug." "Eh? Where are the superheroes? How come there's no background?" "It was cheap." "Yeah? Let's go with it."

It's all downhill from there. 3rd Edition DC Heroes was such a let down after the amazing amount of stuff you got in 1st and 2nd edition, but with art by the DC guys and an easy to read layout, it was a billion times better than the eye bleeding text blocks of Blood of Heroes. Most of the pictures look like they were meant for a fantasy game, and even then, a good (say... 100%) proportion of those are just shit. The layout is eye wateringly dull as well. A missed opportunity, and ripe for a reboot, but whoever owns the system now has long forgotten about it...



Here we have a superheroine in an all action pose demonstrating her super powers. Or perhaps it's someone going to a comic convention and they went in their aerobics gear. Perhaps her power is making the world and her surroundings disappear, or more likely the artist got bored and couldn't be bothered with a background. Most of the pictures are like that.

And the characters in the back. *nnnngh* Editorial meeting: "Hey guys, we ran out of time. What do we do with background setting?" "Stick any old shit in. Seriously, who cares?" "Ok, we only have 10 minutes before we go to press anyway."  And so on.

They would have been better off making a smaller book, maybe PDF only, stick to the basics (the system is fantastic, my favourite for supers) and spend the money they save on someone who can spruce up the inside with some nice layout, and a few reasonable pictures from artists who aren't in school drawing on their notebooks.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;458609The value of art is subjective. Why label stuff you don't like as incompetent?

I'm not a big fan of Picasso but I don't have to say that he couldn't paint just because I don't happen to be a fan.

No there is subjective value,  I like this I don't like this,  Boris is too static, Frazetta has real movement etc. and there is basic incompetence.

I can't draw, sad to say I don't have the talent, if I drew a picture of an orc and put it in my Book you could rightly say that guy can't draw. You might even say I feel a bit gyp'ed as this is supposed to be a prefessional book and I paid money for it and the illustrations have been scribbled in by a mate of the author.

You can find a heap of stuff on Deviant art done by highschool kids that is comparable to the majority of 1eD&D output. That isn't a subjective thing its a competancy thing.

They say a good test of an artist is if you can draw a perfect circle freehand, DCS couldn't draw one with a compass.

Quote from: APN;458626I don't normally post on here (though the forum is very interesting to read, especially when the swearing and name calling starts!) but felt a need to back you up as I feel your pain (currently running a supers game and about to switch to the MEG system).
<...snip ...>

They would have been better off making a smaller book, maybe PDF only, stick to the basics (the system is fantastic, my favourite for supers) and spend the money they save on someone who can spruce up the inside with some nice layout, and a few reasonable pictures from artists who aren't in school drawing on their notebooks.

Welcome to purgatory