Gurps is the one game I WISH had an OGL. I covered some changes I'd make before:

Cut the skill list way down to around 25 skills total.

Make a genre table, with about 20 skills per genre, with skill prices to fit (swords are cheap to learn in scifi, medium priced in fantasy, etc). BESM had this, and it was a great idea.

Provide optional classes, with pre-made stats, skills, and gear, in the core rules.

Have a Magic section in the main rulebook. Any other powers (such as psionics) would be covered in supplements. Fantasy is king, so focus on that in the core rules.

Have a monster book out the month following the main rulebook. Maybe even have a fantasy monster book, followed by a modern/sf monster book.

heh...I call my re-write Open Stricture for a reason.  I'd be all over an open source GURPS liscence.  The biggest issue I have with GURPS is that SJG is the only market for anything I develop to use in my games, and they don't want it or me.

One odd thing that happened as I worked through my redesign is that I shifted the stats to being resistance target numbers and had them and skills assembled from trait purchases.  I think it overcomes the figured stat and stat / skill relationship problems GURPS is prone to (or built around some see it as a feature) .

Oddly enough one of the reasons I went to Rolemaster Standard System was disillusionment with the point buy set up in GURPS.  I like the more structured game that lets me have things both ways.  Random and points buy characters, niche protection and freedom to develop skills and abilities you want.  Yes, it makes for a more complex game but I still find most gamers can do an RMSS character from scratch faster than they can make a GURPS character.

I think wanting a RM to be a more structured version of GURPS or not is the essential philosophical difference that made the RM2 / RMSS edition war so heated.

Hmm. Why not just use a customized version of the bang skills from GURPS Characters? Dungeon Fantasy even recommends fantasy-class versions of the bang skills, like Cleric! that covers stuff like first aid, religious ritual, etc.

Instead of dialing GURPS down, why not dial TFT upward?

I am a fan of using templates for point-buy games. My favorite HERO system game is an oldie called Robot Warriors - AKA build your own giant mecha or other vehicle and your pilot. Back in college, I had a mixed group of players with several very casual guys who got that 1000 yard stare during chargen tougher than roll stats, pick class, pick gear. Since enjoyed the number crunching, it wasn't rocket science to build out PC stereotype templates and various core robots with option packages.

Is everyone blind or something?

Templates have been part of GURPS for close to over TEN years now.


- Ed C.

Yes, and I haven't liked them for that long too.  

As I've said many times before, I really liked first edition GURPS best.  Second edtion ruined the game bloody cardstock covers:(

Quote from: Koltar;452001Is everyone blind or something?

Templates have been part of GURPS for close to over TEN years now.


- Ed C.

Yeah, I mentioned them upthread. They might help, but at this point I agree with the opinion in an RPGnet thread--they're harder to use than just having a set of prerequisites.

And they also don't address my concern about rolling social/psychological elements (including Wealth) into the mechanics, and including them in the general point-balance pool. I came across some variant Wealth rules; not sure if they do what I'd like, although they do point up a general problem in RPGs when it comes to wealth & possessions--all too often, they don't do a good job of handling the varying characteristics of "cash on hand", "fixed property" (real estate, basically), and "recurring income". Particularly in chargen.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;451920I understand that GURPS has improved in a number of ways since I was fiddling with 3e--from introduction of templates, to cost tweaks, to the availability of computer aids. (I know SJG sells one; I just turned up this one, and I'll bet there are others.)

I'm not convinced that templates are really that helpful, in the sense that GURPS uses the word, in the way that it is not necessarily easier to complete a partially assembled kit of pieces.

They may, I suppose, speed customization of stock NPCs, that kind of thing, for experienced GMs and players. But then I think GURPS could make broader use of simplified NPC creation - the kind of thinking that reminds me that I am probably not at heart a GURPS person.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;451920Even with all that, I don't think it will match the more guided archetype approach. And it doesn't necessarily solve my concerns about social/psychological ads/disads.

I can relate.

Quote from: Spinachcat;451997Instead of dialing GURPS down, why not dial TFT upward?

Yes, also an option. I apologize for parrying all the suggestions in this thread with "I don't have time for that right now", but I was basically hunting for readymade alternative chargen examples that have been extensively worked, or even playtested.

As for TFT, there are some houserules out there dealing with the major issues I have with it. E.g. this or this, and this.

This leaves some slightly weird effects in TFT in how some weapons work, and how Strength & weapon use interrelate. GURPS could be mined for mechanics here, resulting in the end with pretty much what I'd have liked GURPS to be.

One way to go is simply giving out enough points and either require a fixed value of disadvantages or scrap them altogether.

Saying you have 150 points and must and may only take 10 points of disadvantages gets rid of the being a hunchback making you the kings issue.

Also?  Argh!  It's time for my rant about GURPS character creation (much like my rant about RMSS character creation)

For pity's sake people!  GURPS does not require you to purchase every skill that does the same thing that's on the list.  If they default to each other you really only need the one.  You can do just fine with Broadsword-16 without buying Shortsword-16, Broadsword Art-16,  Broadsword Sport-16 and so on.  Also GURPS is a hiearchical design damnit!  What I said above goes triple for NPCs!.  Don't worry about advantages for NPCs unless they're really vital.  Just buy stats and skills and not too many skills either.

To me the only thing that would fix GURPS would be if it wasn't point-buy.  That wouldn't necessarily mean it has to be random, mind you.

RPGPundit

Create characters in a game you like, then come up with a conversion guide to GURPs. Ignore the point values per characters and all that. Ignore any skills not in the original game. If that game uses an attribute that isn't covered by skills or ads/disads, make a power that does it, again--ignoring the point values. I'm sure I've played more GURPs being used to run other games than I have any other way.

Quote from: RPGPundit;452100To me the only thing that would fix GURPS would be if it wasn't point-buy.  That wouldn't necessarily mean it has to be random, mind you.

RPGPundit

This is another thing I miss from 3e actually. GURPS 3e had a random char en table.  It usually took spending a few points to round it out depending on your rolls, but it was a good table. I always wished they'd expand the concept, but they never did.

Quote from: J Arcane;452103This is another thing I miss from 3e actually. GURPS 3e had a random char en table.  It usually took spending a few points to round it out depending on your rolls, but it was a good table. I always wished they'd expand the concept, but they never did.

Really? I ran GURPS 3e and I can't really remember that.  Of course, this was over 10 years ago, so its not that I'm calling you a liar or anything. You'd just think I'd remember if there had been such a thing...selective memory, i guess.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;452190Really? I ran GURPS 3e and I can't really remember that.  Of course, this was over 10 years ago, so its not that I'm calling you a liar or anything. You'd just think I'd remember if there had been such a thing...selective memory, i guess.

RPGPundit

It's kind of perfunctory, but it's there. Basically, you roll 3d6 for your attributes, roll on a table for one random advantage and one random disadvantage, and you get 2d6 skills at attribute +1d6-3 level. Page 84-85 of the book I have, 3e revised.