Quote from: Abyssal MawIf your'e truly curious, we can put together a social experiment that will denote exactly who we have to offend to get Andy jumping up to perform his public relations duties.

I may have even already conducted such an experiment!

So...

Andy and Tony are the PR men for a small, faceless group, that you can't or won't clearly elucidate or identify.  They're like the Men in Black, here to hush things up.  I get it.

Damn, I want their job.  That's so cool.

Aww, no way! The Men in Black jobs are taken? I was totally hoping to move up from "profiteer" to "shadowy intelligence agent".

Quote from: Christmas ApeAww, no way! The Men in Black jobs are taken? I was totally hoping to move up from "profiteer" to "shadowy intelligence agent".

We totally need to start an "EXTREME centrist" movement.

I can be Captain Blacktheory, and you can be Agent Christmas.

Well, it's weird! But we're probably thinking different things are cool.

What I think is cool is "by pressing button X, person Y will perform action Z. Without fail."

In other news, there already is an extreme centrist. It's the pundit. Despite his radical (extreme?) demeanor, he's about as centrist and mainstream as it gets.

Quote from: Abyssal MawWell, it's weird! But we're probably thinking different things are cool.

What I think is cool is "by pressing button X, person Y will perform action Z. Without fail."

In other news, there already is an extreme centrist. It's the pundit. Despite his radical (extreme?) demeanor, he's about as centrist and mainstream as it gets.

Redefining the mainstream of the hobby as an extreme is a tried-and-true swine tactic.

Luckily, there are still sites like this one, EnWorld, Dragonsfoot, etc, that are aimed at real RPG gamers.

RPG.Net and the Forge are the lunatic fringe, make no mistake. If they can convince you that normal, functional, TRADITIONAL mainstream gamers like Pundit and Settembrini are the freaks, they've already subverted your perceptions.

Quote from: YamoRedefining the mainstream of the hobby as an extreme is a tried-and-true swine tactic.

"Make the characters bleed.  Hard.  Usually say no."

That's the mainstream, now?

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen"Make the characters bleed.  Hard.  Usually say no."

That's the mainstream, now?

The healthy RPG hobby has always focused on challenge and skill. The GM represents the world as a firm, impartial Judge, who does indeed make the players earn their characters' fates, for good or ill.

Mindless, skill-less "instant gratification" backed-up by heavy GM-disempowerment has always been part of the hobby (we used to call it "Monty Haul" play), but only recently has a gang of broken gits online been so intent on uplifting it above its rightful status as maligned, disfunctional play.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenAndy and Tony are the PR men for a small, faceless group, that you can't or won't clearly elucidate or identify.

Um. :confused:

Well, there are quite a few threads over at Story Games, including the non-public ones, where people link to all sorts of threads to read/watch.  Often with cross site commentary about what was being said over in the other thread.  That's not counting the whispered comments that are private between members.

In the A Bomb Is Dropped thread, it very much seems like a discussion of how to handle the PR fallout of Ron's Infamous Comment.

"You do the math."
"God dammit Ron."
"I kinda ranted on the RPGNet thread..."
"I got my rant on just after you did..."
"Is there anything useful we can do about this problem, though?"

Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that -- it's actually a very smart thing to do, and you'd be foolish to stop.  But claiming there's no PR work being done -- not even informally -- is a bit disingenuous.

Quote from: StuartUm. :confused:

Well, there are quite a few threads over at Story Games, including the non-public ones, where people link to all sorts of threads to read/watch.  Often with cross site commentary about what was being said over in the other thread.  That's not counting the whispered comments that are private between members.

In the A Bomb Is Dropped thread, it very much seems like a discussion of how to handle the PR fallout of Ron's Infamous Comment.

"You do the math."
"God dammit Ron."
"I kinda ranted on the RPGNet thread..."
"I got my rant on just after you did..."
"Is there anything useful we can do about this problem, though?"

Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that -- it's actually a very smart thing to do, and you'd be foolish to stop.  But claiming there's no PR work being done -- not even informally -- is a bit disingenuous.

Links aren't working for me, Stuart.

The first link requires you to have a Story Games account and be logged in.  The second link was just updated... it goes here: http://lumpley.com/marginalia.php?entry=158&comment=3777

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen"Make the characters bleed.  Hard.  Usually say no."

That's the mainstream, now?

Levi, I don't see that as very radical. GM's routinely give players tough challenges and 'brink' situations. Many (nearly all) of the GM's in my group of associates agree that a successful tactical encounter is practically defined as one in which several pcs are injured, resources are expended, but none are killed.

Personally I think the number one GM guideline is to be fair in everything you do. And with regards to making them hurt, I prefera staggered approach. I believe that you should precede really tough situations with 'development' points and encounters I call 'bleeders'.

I'm frankly not sure I agree with the Pundit's "Borgstrom is a Moron law". but then I don't care about Nobilis.

The links are generally kept behind a gate.

Quote from: StuartIn the A Bomb Is Dropped thread, it very much seems like a discussion of how to handle the PR fallout of Ron's Infamous Comment.

Nice find.  

Keep digging.  Where did I go and rant, and what did I say, to whom?  

Let's see, I ranted about people deciding to derail any abstract discussion of games by dropping "Brain Damage" into the conversation, which was done repeatedly, to me.

Oh, and then I went and told Ron that he was wrong on the Forge.

That's PR work?

Quote from: Abyssal MawLevi, I don't see that as very radical. GM's routinely give players tough challenges and 'brink' situations. Many (nearly all) of the GM's in my group of associates agree that a successful tactical encounter is practically defined as one in which several pcs are injured, resources are expended, but none are killed.

Cool.  

Do you think that tactical encounters, of that sort, are among the central features of mainstream gaming?

Quote from: SpikeTo be honest, I don't think much of Borgstrom's talents as a game designer. I don't think much of her writing.  I'll bite that she's obviously creative.  But I've never met her, not even online really, and I'd be extremely hesitant to claim anything about her personage... so unless you can bring up shit she's said 'in person'... via the internet... that backs up your diatribes about her personal character I think you've gone a few steps over the line. You've gone from rabid punditry to general bitchy. Not a good career move.

Her character is that of a pretentious twat.  Just go look at her Blog if you don't believe me.

Frankly, Borgstrom is second only to Baugh as the RPG-personality that has the least merit, the most pretentiousness, and who I would most like to excise from the RPG hobby with extreme prejudice. She's the Queen Midas of Swine.  Everything Borgstrom touches turns to pretentious shit.
Only fashion queens of the worst kind could possibly claim to enjoy her games, and only because they were told they should by someone in an rpg.net clique somewhere.

Nobilis is the worst, most unmerited of all the RPG.net Darlings. Weapons of the Gods is the second worst. Only Baugh's butchering of Gamma World would beat them, but it never even reached "darling" status.
These are games that make Dogs In The Vinyard look worthwhile by comparison, and their authors make Ron Edwards or Vince Baker look like intelligent people with something to contribute in contrast.

Have I been clear enough now?

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