I was just considering lately, how weird it was that TSR had two releases of aztec-like settings, both of which happened broadly within the same time-frame: one was the Forgotten Realms' box set Maztica, the other was the "Sons of Azca" sourcebook for the D&D Mystara/Hollow World setting.

That would be weird enough, but what's really stunning is how these two settings, both done by the same company, at roughly the same period, with the same subject matter, could end up having one of the two (Maztica) being abysmally godawful, and the other (Sons of Azca) so very excellent.

RPGPundit

As I understand it, based on the account of someone who was at TSR around that time, the in-house staff then looked down on the D&D line as less 'prestigious' than AD&D.

The D&D line editor (forget the name) took a real interest in developing works, and the necessity of turning to freelance writers became the advantage of working with such consummate pros as Aaron Allston -- and John Nephew, author of Sons of Azca.

For me personally, the Hollow Earth products were one bright spot at a time when TSR didn't offer much worth buying.

More than a decade earlier, TSR published module C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan (by Harold Johnson and Jeff R. Leason). That has lovely flavor based, IIRC, mainly on artifacts of the pre-Aztec Olmecs.

Another Central American scenario was "Mechica" by Gali Sanchez, in Dragon #70.

Quote from: Phillip;450551As I understand it, based on the account of someone who was at TSR around that time, the in-house staff then looked down on the D&D line as less 'prestigious' than AD&D.

The D&D line editor (forget the name) took a real interest in developing works, and the necessity of turning to freelance writers became the advantage of working with such consummate pros as Aaron Allston -- and John A. Nephew, author of Sons of Azca.

For me personally, the Hollow Earth products were one bright spot at a time when TSR didn't offer much worth buying.

Yeah, most of the BECMI stuff regularly kicked the AD&D's stuff butt, IME. It was far more focused on being actually fun to play.  You note the Aztec setting disparity.  One I had personal experience was the cool BECMI Ethengar Khanate fantasy-Mongols sourcebook vs the huge but incredibly tedious Forgotten Realms 'Horde' pseudo-historical Mongols box set.

The Hollow World stuff was great, I wish I had bought more of it when I had the chance.

TSR staff in the 2nd edition period included several developers whose output was uniformly horrible - consider Dougles Niles, Dale "Slade" Henson and the Bruce & Jean Rabe duo (who were RPGA). As I understand, they were young low-paid drones with dreams of making it big by getting the hell out of RPG writing and into the more lucrative novel business; management probably didn't even want someone building an independent name for themselves like Gygax and becoming a liability -- at a time, they were experimenting with novels written under a common house pseudonym, and while it didn't work out, it shows how much attention they paid to individual talent. It was a place where being a shitty designer was actually a good thing.

It is not a surprise good things didn't come out of that design culture and you find the better things were written by freelancers on the company fringes. When generic TSR modules were horribly bland and uninspired filler (once again: read a module by either of the Rabes to see what I am talking about), Dungeon Magazine was the go-to source for stuff that actually worked in a campaign and was genuinely exciting. Because it was written by people who actually cared and actually gamed, and maybe even knew their stuff.

So again, the basic D&D line being good by being a neglected periphery -- not surprising. Not at all. (This is also why, in spite of all their problems, I am a staunch proponent of 3rd party products: they provide a perspective a stratified corporate environment can never produce - even one better run than They Sue Regularly.)

I remember a module in Dungeon by the late, great Nigel Findley that still to this day sticks out in my head as a great module.  I know what you mean when you say a lot of the talent was showing up in Dungeon.

Quote from: Phillip;450551More than a decade earlier, TSR published module C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan (by Harold Johnson and Jeff R. Leason). That has lovely flavor based, IIRC, mainly on artifacts of the pre-Aztec Olmecs.

Ah. I was going to mention C1. One of my personal favorites.

Quote from: Phillip;450551The D&D line editor (forget the name) took a real interest in developing works,

Bruce Heard? Cool guy.

Quote from: Melan;450562Dungeon Magazine was the go-to source for stuff that actually worked in a campaign and was genuinely exciting.

Oh yes.

All the more surprising that the magazine didn't sell much better.

I just did an interview with Aaron Allston for my research methods in history class term paper.  He gave me some interesting stories on freelancing for TSR during that period.  He did speak very highly of the basic D&D line, and the products that were done for it.  He himself did Karameikos, which continues to be my default D&D world.

I ran a Hollow World / Ravenloft campaign just in the pseudo-Egyptian area for about a year and it was awesome. The Hollow World line was good stuff.

Quote from: Melan;450562(This is also why, in spite of all their problems, I am a staunch proponent of 3rd party products: they provide a perspective a stratified corporate environment can never produce - even one better run than They Sue Regularly.)

Very true.

Quote from: colwebbsfmc;451407I just did an interview with Aaron Allston for my research methods in history class term paper.  He gave me some interesting stories on freelancing for TSR during that period.  He did speak very highly of the basic D&D line, and the products that were done for it.  He himself did Karameikos, which continues to be my default D&D world.

IMHO every BECMI/RC D&D fan out there is indebted to Mr. Allston on account of the fantastic job he did as the editor of the D&D Rules Cyclopedia. As far as I'm concerned, it's the Cadillac of D&D rulesets.

Quote from: colwebbsfmc;451396I remember a module in Dungeon by the late, great Nigel Findley that still to this day sticks out in my head as a great module.  I know what you mean when you say a lot of the talent was showing up in Dungeon.

Holy shit, Dungeon was awesome back in the day! (early 90s to me)

I remember fondly running a high-level adventure which was fucking Macbeth. Someone took the Scottish play, substituted the Scots for elves, and voilà! Instant awesome epic high-level AD&D 2e-powered fun. It was called "Dark Thane Macbeth", and IIRC Macbeth himself was a drow fighter/mage. :cool:

Quote from: colwebbsfmc;451407I just did an interview with Aaron Allston for my research methods in history class term paper.  He gave me some interesting stories on freelancing for TSR during that period.  He did speak very highly of the basic D&D line, and the products that were done for it.  He himself did Karameikos, which continues to be my default D&D world.

Any chance you could share some info from the interview?

Quote from: The Butcher;451457I remember fondly running a high-level adventure which was fucking Macbeth. Someone took the Scottish play, substituted the Scots for elves, and voilà! Instant awesome epic high-level AD&D 2e-powered fun. It was called "Dark Thane Macbeth", and IIRC Macbeth himself was a drow fighter/mage. :cool:

I remember that.  I think the same guy did a couple of Shakespeare inspired adventures.  
 
Dungeon has usually been a real bargain in terms of usable content and inspiration per dollar.