Quote from: J Arcane;447638As long as they fix/remove the botch rule, I don't think much other tweaking is necessary. Any of the other statistical problems with the system would require a complete replacement of the die mechanic, and that's not really practical.

Quote from: Seanchai;447648I'm okay with most of the old system, but what I want most is: the nifty breakdown of failure, success, and exceptional success and generation and stats to matter when it comes to using Disciplines.

Seanchai

Good points, all around. The botch rule was the only that rally bothered me in game. The rest is pretty much OK. The ideas thrown by Seanchai are nifty, too.

Quote from: Imperator;447671Good points, all around. The botch rule was the only that rally bothered me in game. The rest is pretty much OK. The ideas thrown by Seanchai are nifty, too.

I actually really liked the notch rules for Mage. The idea that spells were more risky the more dice you choose was cool.

Quote from: Imperator;447671Good points, all around. The botch rule was the only that rally bothered me in game.

That's the main thing that would need revising. The botch rule is what makes rolling very large pools of dice a very huge risk, and let's face it, when you have a character built with Elysium rules rolling in the range of 15+dice, you shouldn't hesitate because the chance of getting critical failures is so huge. That doesn't make sense.

One should be careful revising this, however. Taking out the botch rules altogether would be a mistake. The nWoD has an okay solution with its rule of adding/substracting dice from the pool, but I always felt that the only opportunity to get a critical failure in nWoD by rolling a chance die (when pools are inferior to 0) is kinda lame. I wish there was another way to make it work simply, and still get an infinitesimal chance of critical failure for very large pools. Maybe they'll find it. That would be cool.

Quote from: Cranewings;447677I actually really liked the notch rules for Mage. The idea that spells were more risky the more dice you choose was cool.

True. That's actually one instance where the botch rules actually make sense, in context.

Quote from: Imperator;447671Good points, all around. The botch rule was the only that rally bothered me in game. The rest is pretty much OK. The ideas thrown by Seanchai are nifty, too.

The botch rule didn't bother us too much because we had a fix: you rolled various different colored d10s. Only d10s of a certain color counted toward a botch. The Storyteller or whatever that role is called would tell you how many botch-potential d10s to roll based on the botch-potential of the task.

What bothered me most was when I had a 4th generation Tremere unable to Dominate a PCs handily because of crappy rolling. It took him something like three turns. Lame.

It also seems to me that in any many-on-one fight, the one is fucked. I can't decide if that's a flaw or not.

Seanchai