Quote from: SpikeTo be fair, Noblis is one of the most miserable fucking reads I've ever had, beyond... or at least on par with that one 'short story' from the seventies that gets contest readings... what was it again? The Eye of Argon or somesuch???

True, Noblis isn't particularly accessible. So just that alone would make it somewhat understandable.....if only the same basic premise wasn't also elsewhere, specifically DitV and where DitV is directly quoted in BW, and those having also been covered in the previous incarnation of this thead.

P.S. I am curious though where RPGPundit did his Nobilis reading? I was under the impression that there wasn't really the equivalent of RPG shops down there that he could have loitered in and read Nobilis on the cheap. Jong, is there anything you'd like to say at this point? Or do they have the equivalent of pleading the 5th down there in Uraguay?

QuoteWhat fucking question are you on about?

QuoteIn fact, the game is a horrendously badly written piece of garbage with rules that are so unplayable you have to constantly redefine them from their literal meaning in order to even justify them, much less play them.

Does that jog your memory? No, I didn't think it would, given that the question was asked (several times) but it wasn't in your voice so you didn't hear it.

The question, raised every time you carry on about the game you didn't even read being unplayable, is "what exactly have you found unplayable?" GrimGent asked it several times and you ignored it several times. I also reiterated it, since it seems to me that if you want to bitch and moan about something, you should bitch and moan about it in concrete terms.

QuoteI know you feel like idiots now, but continuing with the self-delusion is going to only make it worse in the long run.

I'm starting to wonder if Borgstrom is your kryptonite, because that was pretty weak.

Quote from: RPGPunditYou're an idiot, and I have read Nobilis, or at least as much of it as I could manage before being overwhelmed by the Borgstromosity of it.

Your ignorance and hypocrisy shame us both.  Either you are purposefully dense or honestly dense -- I can't tell nor can be bothered to tell, and it's no credit to you either way.

As best I can suss out your complaint, some big, bad fan-boy once suggested over the Internet that his favorite game could handle your favorite setting better than your favorite game and you suffered an aneurism that left you with only your "lizard brain" in tact.  Unable to exact revenge upon the person who actually made the damaging remark, you've fixated instead on the author of the game the big, bad fan-boy promoted over your favorite game:  R. Sean Borgstrom.  Ever since then, any time anyone so much as mentions "Nobilis", you drop to all fours, begin flicking your tongue, and spread your wattle in an aggression display.

Admit it, man.  Someone dickweed suggested that, under the shared umbrella of Guardians of Order, a new Amber game be published using the Nobilis mechanics.  In a show of reptilian territorialism, you popped a gasket and decided that, rather than discredit a lame idea, you needed to attempt to discredit a game that you neither enjoy nor understand.  Boo-fucking-hoo.  It was never a good idea, it didn't happen, and it won't infringe on your psyche anymore.  Now wipe your nose and get over it.

!i!

Don't forget "dribbling f-bombs like a retard with Tourette's syndrome," although it doesn't take something as dastardly as that evil Borgstrom woman to cause that.

Quote from: RPGPunditYou're an idiot, and I have read Nobilis, or at least as much of it as I could manage before being overwhelmed by the Borgstromosity of it.

Let's face it, just admit it guys, you were duped. You were duped by what was fashionable. Because you were told that this game was "in" and that she was "brilliant", and so you lied to yourselves to convince yourselves that it was so, so that you could be one of the "in" crowd.

In fact, the game is a horrendously badly written piece of garbage with rules that are so unplayable you have to constantly redefine them from their literal meaning in order to even justify them, much less play them.

I know you feel like idiots now, but continuing with the self-delusion is going to only make it worse in the long run. Anyways, you'll look especially stupid when Borgstrom stops being part of what's "fashionable", something that is already rapidly coming to pass.

RPGPundit

Sometimes you remind me of my niece when she was a kid and would get totally worked up about some manner of inanity that has absolutely no consequence outside of her mind and she's run about, stomping her feet, hectoring anyone patient and kind enough to listen to the resulting, seemingly endless diatribe.

There are days that you're so cute that I wish you still lived somewhere in North America.  

She had a little bunny suit that she wore one Halloween.  That's why I wished you were still within reasonable travelling distance.  Because I would so buy you a bunny suit and listen to any and all of your little railings against the cruel injustices of the universe.  Just as long as you wore the floppy bunny suit like so:

QuoteY'know, Pundit, sometimes people have opinions which differ from yours for reasons other than self-delusion.

Very seldomly. Most of the times it´s the aesthetics of the Punditry.

Quote from: GrimGentRemember when you asked...Three times so far I've inquired after an example of a situation which you couldn't imagine resolved through the rules as written. Instead of coming up with that, you have kept repeating the same line about general unplayability, without even attempting to prove it in any way. That... doesn't exactly support your position. Surely if the game cannot be played at all, any situation would be enough?

See my answer over in the other thread on this topic.

RPGPundit

Quote from: blakkieTrue, Noblis isn't particularly accessible. So just that alone would make it somewhat understandable.....if only the same basic premise wasn't also elsewhere, specifically DitV and where DitV is directly quoted in BW, and those having also been covered in the previous incarnation of this thead.

P.S. I am curious though where RPGPundit did his Nobilis reading? I was under the impression that there wasn't really the equivalent of RPG shops down there that he could have loitered in and read Nobilis on the cheap. Jong, is there anything you'd like to say at this point? Or do they have the equivalent of pleading the 5th down there in Uraguay?

Nobilis came out before I moved to Uruguay.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaYour ignorance and hypocrisy shame us both.  Either you are purposefully dense or honestly dense -- I can't tell nor can be bothered to tell, and it's no credit to you either way.

As best I can suss out your complaint, some big, bad fan-boy once suggested over the Internet that his favorite game could handle your favorite setting better than your favorite game.... [snip]

Actually, RPGPundit laid out his harrowing and sad Origin Story in another thread where he tried valiently to explain there's a "war" (!) going on in the hobby of RPGs.

He wrote...

Quote from: RPGPunditThe same way Story-based gaming purged away thousands of traditional gamers in the end of the nineties; by creating an environment where the only books being offered are not just non-traditional books but are downright derogatory toward mainstream RPG play. By making it so that mainstream gamers are told they are not wanted if they are not willing to follow the "in-crowd" and bow at the feet of story-based gaming, and sent that message over and over again through products that specifically make a mockery of all they enjoy, until those gamers leave the hobby.

Look into that quote and see the sad story of a little boy lost and betrayed when no one wanted to play his game. But was he defeated? No! He saw the mockery made of his taste as a battle clarion and picked up the guantlet!

****

As far as I can tell, after looking over many posts and threads, RPGPundit was the outsider for a while, back in the day where WW got hot. I'm mean, seriously, look at that quote above. He tries to frame it as some sort of bizarre epic conflict. But really what it amounts to is, "I didn't have any friends to play with."

Notice how so many of his attacks boil down to, "You think you're being cool! But you're NOT! You're NOT!"

He's a sad man, scarred at some point in social activities. And rather growing up and moving on -- like healthy adults  -- he's been nursing that wound. Stuck still in some sort of strange adolecent phase, his arguments boil down in the end to calling people "cunt" and "fucker." He might as well be smearing his posts with shit out of a diaper for all the thought and intelletcual weight they contain.

There is no content in the rhetoric besides this: "I was alone once, and I'll keep screaming so that it never happens again."

Christopher

Quote from: Christopher KubasikThere is no content in the rhetoric besides this: "I was alone once, and I'll keep screaming so that it never happens again."

Christopher

If you say so. I need look no further than RPG.Net to confirm the reality of what he describes.

There have been an inordinate number of swine showing up lately to try to slag me/defend Nobilis.

I must really be onto something...

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThere have been an inordinate number of swine showing up lately to try to slag me/defend Nobilis.

I must really be onto something...

Nah, folks just have this impression that, having caught you in an obvious and gross exagerration, they can score some points off you with it.

Personally, I figured it'd just be easier to go for a few cheap laughs, this time out.

Quote from: RPGPunditI must really be onto something...

Yes, of course Pundit.  The fact that many people think you are wrong on this is unquestionable proof that you are, in fact, right.  There is no other possible explanation.

QuoteThere is no content in the rhetoric besides this: "I was alone once, and I'll keep screaming so that it never happens again."

That´s what you try to make the truth go away?
If he was as irrelevant and puny as you say, any adult person wouldn´t even speak aout him.

The reverse is true.

Let me tell you a little story about myself:
I´m a dedicated Adventure gamer, be they Boardgames, Wargames, Computer games or Roleplaying. I have and have had a weekly or two bi-weekly games since I started at age 11 (except fo military service time). I nearly always had fun and was and are a very successful GM, in regards to player feedback and players wanting more. I´ve never ever had problems getting players or having fun with RPGs.
I was rummaging the internets only for some ideas, and I never contributed anything in forae, up until 2005. But I left my CotI, JTAS and TML and went into RPG.Net to find out what possibilities there are for Fantasy Gaming, as I typecasted myself as SF-GM and wanted to change that. That´s when I started reading recent threads on RPG.Net, as well as entering debate in the German forae landscape about a game of Cthulhu I was a player in.
More and more I came across total shitheads and idiots, who were wanking to some stupid games they don´t actually play in any meaningful way. Add to that a universe of lazy procrastinating GMs, who were posting more than prepping, and a conspicious consumption culture. I was totally disgusted by RPG Internet Culture: Groupthink, conspicious consumption, passive aggression against my gamestyle, bitter non-gamers.

I was taking a deep breath, reflecting on what in hell happened to the gaming scene, how could people outside the Phaeacia of Traveller-fandom be so utter bulldrekkers?. Thusly, I sought out industry history articles.  
In late 2005 I stumbled through an EnWorld link unto the lair of the Pundit. And what a revelation! North American Gamers aren´t puritanoid nongamers! No, there are regular, cool people, with a sense of proportion. But they are are marginalized, and after entering the internet discourse, I was laughed, mocked and marginalized too. That´s when a regular person just walks away. But the example of the Pundit gave me hope. Maybe regular joe happy gamer (guys and gals like me and my friends & family)  could enjoy the internet too. But first we had to take it back. First, the totally fucked-up internet discourse has to be destroyed like the gordian knot.
For everybody entering from the outside, like me last year, the reality of the swine is obvious.
And the need for fighting them is obvious too.

So after all this, I totally assume, and am quite sure that our RPGPundit is a succesful and intensive RPG enthusiast. Because I am one, and why should I think different about someone who posts more about his own games, than there are actual play threads at the forge?

Honestly, I think the Pundit is wrong about several things. But the things that matter, the reign of the swine in internet discourse, that´s were is is so right it is hurting sometimes. And that´s why he is a great man, in this  very small sense in that  he stands up against  stupidity. You must understand: The fight against the swine is not a fight against "the man". It´s the fight against self-deluded intellectuanistas, who poison the debate with sophistry and false wisdom. It´s a fight against the second tier who brainwashes the third tier of brain power. People like me, with real games  and some real education and brains usually take a short look at the  gaming-internet and discard it. Not so the Pundit! And this is meritous, as he also is a real academic, an intellectual if you will.

See where this has a parallel to Ron Edwards? He also is a real scientist, with real education and real brains. But his methods are different, although he was and is as much disgusted at the stupidity and cliqueness of internet debate. The way Ron chose was the way of trying to change the games. He thinks the games are broken, because the people who talk about them are broken (brain damage). So the games must change.
Pundit says the people must change, and the games should be like they used to be before those swine showed up. Not all, just the internet shitheads. And honestly, Pundit´s  assumption is the one  I have too.  
Because it´s more humane to fight a few idiots, than to  declare a whole hobby to be broken.

(I know very well that Ron always says: If you have fun, keep doing it. But it is very clear, that Ron sees frustration and bad gaming more often than successful regular joe games.)

Quote from: RPGPunditThere have been an inordinate number of swine showing up lately to try to slag me/defend Nobilis.

I must really be onto something...

RPGPundit

A few of people only, Pundit. Abstain from the Kurtz blend for the time being.

Regards,
David R