The law is so riddled with exceptions as to be just as useless as a general application of "Say Yes or Roll the Dice [except when you should say no, which you'll never have to do because we assume a priori that the group's "social contract" will prevent abuse]".

Quote from: RPGPunditIn Nobilis you have godlike-beings who are spoilt brats given anything they want, placing demands on the GM (sorry, the "hollyhock god"), and generally not facing any difficulties other than the ones the players consent to, and only "growing" in the most artificial way.

Are you reading a different "Law?" The quote given says nothing about giving the players everything they desire and no difficulties, in fact, it says you should attach difficulties whenever you think of them.

C'mon man! At least try! You're better than this.

And you still haven't answered the question.

Quote from: James McMurrayC'mon man! At least try! You're better than this.

Do I enjoy irony?

Why yes.  Yes, I do.

It's been my pleasure to bring a smile to your day.

What fucking question are you on about?

RPGPundit

Well the word Moron definitely has a place in this law. Somehow I think the hostile tone of it will translate really well amongst fucktard GMs. This law has no place in the traditional GM/player role as I understand (define) it. It fosters unnecessary hostility among players and GMs and makes it seem that the players have to win and that the GM is their adversary.

This is exactly the reason why some players have so much problems with their GMs. I'm firmly in the trad school of GMing myself. My style has mutated over the years. I'm pretty sure every person I have GMed for has had fun. And yes, I do think that a GM (IMO) has a lot of power/influence but this so called law is a poor elaboration of it.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: J ArcaneI nfairness to Pundit (there's some words I never thought I'd say), his misinterpretation may not be supported by the text, but it's a misinterpretation shared by gazillions of retard followers all over RPGnet who really do think that "Always say yes" means "I can do/be/say whatever the fuck I want and the GM has to bend over and take it".

House rules. Sure. But those cannot be blamed on Borgstrom or Nobilis, and I frankly resent the exaggerations of some overzealous reformer being treated as part of the game as written even when the actual rules in the book contradict them. Mostly I resent that because it's getting awfully tiresome to explain the same things over and over again whenever someone insists that Nob is an "experimental Forge indie game which allows the players to dictate the narrative directly", or some such thing. Far be it from me to spoil anyone's fun, but that does make me grouchy.

Quote from: RPGPunditSo, opinions?

My opinion?  I think you're either inordinately hung up on a gross misunderstanding of a game that you've apparently never read nor played, or you're grossly mis-stating features of a game that you've apparently never read nor played as an excuse to simultaneously complain about someone else's writing style and to glorify your own GM style.  Either way, the seeming fact that you've apparently never read nor played Nobilis suggests that you're not qualified to complain about how the game plays.  You could very easily start a thread to complain about her writing style (assuming you've read some of her work elsewhere) or to glorify your own GM style, in either case leaving any unqualified commentary about Nobilis out of the issue.

That's my opinion.

Oh, did you want me to comment on your opinion of R. Sean Borgstrom's writing style or your GM style?  I'm sorry, you should have actually said so.

!i!

Quote from: GrimGent"experimental Forge indie game which allows the players to dictate the narrative directly"

No, that's Polaris.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaMy opinion?  I think you're either inordinately hung up on a gross misunderstanding of a game that you've apparently never read nor played, or you're grossly mis-stating features of a game that you've apparently never read nor played as an excuse to simultaneously complain about someone else's writing style and to glorify your own GM style.  Either way, the seeming fact that you've apparently never read nor played Nobilis suggests that you're not qualified to complain about how the game plays.  You could very easily start a thread to complain about her writing style (assuming you've read some of her work elsewhere) or to glorify your own GM style, in either case leaving any unqualified commentary about Nobilis out of the issue.

That's my opinion.

Oh, did you want me to comment on your opinion of R. Sean Borgstrom's writing style or your GM style?  I'm sorry, you should have actually said so.

!i!

You're an idiot, and I have read Nobilis, or at least as much of it as I could manage before being overwhelmed by the Borgstromosity of it.

Let's face it, just admit it guys, you were duped. You were duped by what was fashionable. Because you were told that this game was "in" and that she was "brilliant", and so you lied to yourselves to convince yourselves that it was so, so that you could be one of the "in" crowd.

In fact, the game is a horrendously badly written piece of garbage with rules that are so unplayable you have to constantly redefine them from their literal meaning in order to even justify them, much less play them.

I know you feel like idiots now, but continuing with the self-delusion is going to only make it worse in the long run. Anyways, you'll look especially stupid when Borgstrom stops being part of what's "fashionable", something that is already rapidly coming to pass.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Levi KornelsenNo, that's Polaris.

Well, certainly. But some folks seem to operate under the assumption that it's also a fitting description of Nob, for reasons I cannot really fathom.

Quote from: RPGPunditIn fact, the game is a horrendously badly written piece of garbage with rules that are so unplayable you have to constantly redefine them from their literal meaning in order to even justify them, much less play them.

Remember when you asked...

QuoteWhat fucking question are you on about?

Three times so far I've inquired after an example of a situation which you couldn't imagine resolved through the rules as written. Instead of coming up with that, you have kept repeating the same line about general unplayability, without even attempting to prove it in any way. That... doesn't exactly support your position. Surely if the game cannot be played at all, any situation would be enough?

Quote from: RPGPunditYou're an idiot, and I have read Nobilis, or at least as much of it as I could manage before being overwhelmed by the Borgstromosity of it.

He said misunderstanding.  You are confusing reading with understanding, you might have read parts but you clearly aren't understanding. So he was giving you the [EDIT:very charitable] benefit of the doubt that if you read you would have understood. All that of course was covered, extensively, the first time this was brought up somewhere around when this board was started. Of course you also proved incapable, perhaps through sheer desire alone, of grasping the concept then. So I guess this where the board's endless loop is? Where you'll demonstrate the same pigheaded empty mouth blarring mouth, leaden unhearing ears. How ironic that you toss out the insults "idiot" and "moron" in glorious display the pot calling the kettle a pot. :rolleyes: :pundit:

Quote from: RPGPunditI know you feel like idiots now, but continuing with the self-delusion is going to only make it worse in the long run.

Y'know, Pundit, sometimes people have opinions which differ from yours for reasons other than self-delusion.

The simple fact is that a lot of people on these boards are (at least to my eyes) way smarter than you.  You've gathered a smart, savvy group of posters.  You really ought to listen to them.  They could teach you things.

Quote from: blakkieHe said misunderstanding.  

To be fair, Noblis is one of the most miserable fucking reads I've ever had, beyond... or at least on par with that one 'short story' from the seventies that gets contest readings... what was it again? The Eye of Argon or somesuch???


At least the Eye is vaguely entertaining in it's incoherency.