Quote from: flyingmice;377645Don't be silly. They DL them for free off a torrent site, just like their music and their movies.

The first group I played 3E/3.5E with, didn't own any of the books.  They just used the 3.5E D&D SRD and downloaded all the other books off some file sharing networks like Kazaa, Morpheus, etc ...

Quote from: flyingmice;377645Don't be silly. They DL them for free off a torrent site, just like their music and their movies.

-clash

I saw this too, but not until after getting out of high school. We kept in touch online, played games online, and because we couldn't borrow physical copies anymore, "borrowed" them another way. Some of us did anyway.

I don't think anyone thought to do this until then though. YMMV and all that. This is all anecdote, and after high school (for a while at least) my sample size went from around 30 to around 10. So I'm sure others may have picked up on the idea more quickly.

Quote from: beejazz;377662I saw this too, but not until after getting out of high school. We kept in touch online, played games online, and because we couldn't borrow physical copies anymore, "borrowed" them another way. Some of us did anyway.

I don't think anyone thought to do this until then though. YMMV and all that. This is all anecdote, and after high school (for a while at least) my sample size went from around 30 to around 10. So I'm sure others may have picked up on the idea more quickly.

I'm old as dirt - 53 last November - but I'm not blind. It's not a matter of high school, It's a matter of the times. Casual electronic distribution has been around since before the internet - it used to be through bulletin boards. Now, though, they are shitting on their own carpets. Unlike music and movies, there is no other way for designers/publishers to make money at this. They can't tour, or release to theatres.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;377680I'm old as dirt - 53 last November - but I'm not blind. It's not a matter of high school, It's a matter of the times. Casual electronic distribution has been around since before the internet - it used to be through bulletin boards. Now, though, they are shitting on their own carpets. Unlike music and movies, there is no other way for designers/publishers to make money at this. They can't tour, or release to theatres.

-clash

I would pay to see Clash Bowley live in concert.

Quote from: StormBringer;377703I would pay to see Clash Bowley live in concert.

You're almost as nutty as Aos, SB!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;377704You're almost as nutty as Aos, SB!

-clash

He does set the bar.

Quote from: StormBringer;377706He does set the bar.

He sets the bar, passes it, then won't leave it at closing time.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;377707He sets the bar, passes it, then won't leave it at closing time.

-clash

Two guys walked into the bar, which is stupid cuz you'd think the first guy woulda walked into it and the second guy woulda seen it.

Quote from: Sigmund;377708Two guys walked into the bar, which is stupid cuz you'd think the first guy woulda walked into it and the second guy woulda seen it.

A skeleton walks into a bar and orders a beer...



... and a mop.

-clash

A priest, a rabbi, and a minister walk into a bar. The bartender says "What is this - some kinda joke?"

-clash

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;377612That's reasonably common for RPG systems, really. With 4e, elf rangers one-shotted Orcus before the PHB was even released.  Then there's orbizards. Generally speaking, if your players are jerks they will break a system.

Anyway in any design, there's a tradeoff between flexibility and balance, just like there is for playability vs. realism. Also, the more safeguards a system has engineered into it to prevent characters becoming uber, the harder it becomes for NPCs to catch up with a PC who does still manage to get ahead of the power curve.

In 3.x, you don't need to be a jerk. Playing a single classed Druid and picking the smart and obvious options is enough to unbalance the game.

Quote from: flyingmice;377680I'm old as dirt - 53 last November - but I'm not blind. It's not a matter of high school, It's a matter of the times. Casual electronic distribution has been around since before the internet - it used to be through bulletin boards. Now, though, they are shitting on their own carpets. Unlike music and movies, there is no other way for designers/publishers to make money at this. They can't tour, or release to theatres.

-clash

I mention high school and my particular situation because I think it's relavent. I think it's easier in high school to borrow and lend physical copies than it is when you get forced by necessity into playing online.

I also think it's relavent that if there weren't so many damn books we (they, rather) wouldn't have felt the need to lend around or pirate. I'm pretty sure almost everyone had a physical copy of the PHB, and a significant majority had the DMG and MM. Even though there was the perfectly legal free SRD.

I'm thinking part of the reason everybody had a physical copy of the corebooks is the same reason I've never used a PDF adventure (and there are plenty of free ones): it's easier to use an electronic book away from than at the table. Some PDFs are more difficult to look stuff up in and not everybody has a laptop. Sure you can print out all those free adventures (haven't done that either, more because as a rule I distrust published adventures on a whole other level from supplements), but corebooks are big and colorful and not necessarily good for printing.

The solution for everybody but D&D, IME is to sell several stand alone games instead of one game and a bunch of supplements, and to sell print copies. Both of which I'm pretty sure you do.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;377714In 3.x, you don't need to be a jerk. Playing a single classed Druid and picking the smart and obvious options is enough to unbalance the game.

I guess I'm just stupid then, because I never had a problem with it.

It's odd how that works out when your mindset isn't to be constantly looking for what's "optimal".

Since my shtick in this thread has been deliberately uncharitable definitions of term, I'd like to propose another "New School":

Treating the game likes it's a fucking MMO.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;377714In 3.x, you don't need to be a jerk. Playing a single classed Druid and picking the smart and obvious options is enough to unbalance the game.

I'm pretty sure a druid doesn't fight better than a fighter, wiz better than a wizard, cler better than a cleric, or rogue better than a rouge... it's just too close to a fighter, wizard, and cleric simultaneously to have a clearly defined niche. It's not invincible, doesn't one-shot ridiculously tough foes, and healing/blasting/fighting aren't niches that become redundant when filled (the way, say, the roll of hacker or lockpick does). It's poor design yes, but not one that makes the game significantly less fun.

Though a good enough example of why no one in their right mind took the RAW seriously.