I do think it is funny that the same groups of users team up with each other against the other same group of users teaming up with each other.

I mean, we could also do a meta argument at this point, with people playing the roles of the various usual suspects here.

Quote from: jgants;376561Just to be clear, whether or not 1e had the rules as core or whether or not some skill-like rolls existed as class abilities is immaterial to the argument I'm making.  All I'm saying here is in 2e, NWPs are part of the core and are clearly a skill system (albeit, a limited and rudimentary one).  Therefore, TSR most certainly was part of the "system skill over player skill" train and it did not, in fact, begin with WotC (though they did escalate it - based on the fact that a huge number of players complained about it not having a proper skill system for decades).

Well, to be fair, the NWP in 2e were clearly marked as an optional system.  Though I will grant it was the start of things, and likely would have continued in some form through to a TSR version of 3e, had they kept the license.

Quote from: Mistwell;376601You are a poopy head.

Is that the direct kind of names you meant?

Pretty much, though you don't get points for style.
Also, you're a bit late to the party, Mark. Might want to work on the trolling timing.

Quote from: Mistwell;376602I do think it is funny that the same groups of users team up with each other against the other same group of users teaming up with each other.

Isn't that what community is about?  Finding like minded individuals to discuss ideas with?

Quote from: Benoist;376606Pretty much, though you don't get points for style.
Also, you're a bit late to the party, Mark. Might want to work on the trolling timing.

I know. I know.  I hang my head in shame at my tardiness.

That's not REtardiness, just tardiness.

Quote from: StormBringer;376608Isn't that what community is about?  Finding like minded individuals to discuss ideas with?

Snicker.  Discussion? That wasn't a discussion.  That was a food fight.

Quote from: Mistwell;376613Snicker.  Discussion? That wasn't a discussion.  That was a food fight.

Glad you can feel so superior about it.

Quote from: Mistwell;376613Snicker.  Discussion? That wasn't a discussion.  That was a food fight.

And...?  If you can find some way to enforce Robert's Rules of Order, I am all for it.  Otherwise, this is just how interactions occur between people.  The ultimate expression of the Hegelian 'trialectic' synthesis.

Quote from: Mistwell;376613Snicker.  Discussion? That wasn't a discussion.  That was a food fight.

So why haven't you gone over to Circvs Maximvs to whine about it as you've done in the past?

Quote from: Sigmund;376614Glad you can feel so superior about it.

I don't feel superior about it.  I am up for a food fight like anyone else, and as I said to Benoist I am disappointed that I missed this one

Quote from: StormBringer;376615And...?

And nothing, I was just saying I think it was more a food fight than a discussion, and I have nothing against either.

Quote from: jeff37923;376618So why haven't you gone over to Circvs Maximvs to whine about it as you've done in the past?

You're whine is empty and shallow, since people here at various times have posted bitches about stuff said at EnWorld and RPGnet and the WOTC boards, and you never made one complaint about it.  At one time you may have had a valid point, but that time long passed.  Your mere presence here is an act of condoning that kind of behavior, so put your stones away before you break our lovely glass walls.

I have not posted about it at CM because it wasn't really asshattery, and I didn't have a problem with it.  But, don't worry, you're a total asshat Jeffrey boy, and I will be sure to let others in the community know when you behave in a particularly immature manner, as you surely will again.

Quote from: Mistwell;376692And nothing, I was just saying I think it was more a food fight than a discussion, and I have nothing against either.

There was a delicious quiche in there somewhere, if you can find it.  

Quote from: StormBringer;376615And...?  If you can find some way to enforce Robert's Rules of Order, I am all for it.  Otherwise, this is just how interactions occur between people.

This is how interactions occur on the internet. When you're protected by anonymity you feel more comfortable being a dick.

Quote from: Fifth Element;376711This is how interactions occur on the internet. When you're protected by anonymity you feel more comfortable being a dick.

And people feel more comfortable being a dick to you if you're just a pseudonym.

Both are reasons I now go by my first and middle names on forums, and include an image of myself as my avatar. I've found it makes both me and the people talking to me talk a lot more as we would in person. There's less nerdfury that way.

This thread is full of nerdfury. Shake those puny fists, lads. Then remember it's really all about dice and snacks, not really serious business. Even brain-damaged Ron Edwards enjoys snacks, as anyone can see from his svelte physique. And if he doesn't go "woohoo" or "booo" at his dice rolls like the rest of us, I'll eat my DMG.

As a great man once said,

I have a dream that one day these geeks will rise up and live out the true meaning of their creed: "It's all about the dice and snacks."

I have a dream that one day in the game store, the sons of former players and the sons of former GMs will be able to sit down together at the table of gamerdom.

I have a dream that one day even the Forge, a board sweltering with the heat of injustice and warped game theory, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of dice and snacks.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the game they choose but by the snacks they bring to the table.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day, down at the Wizards offices, with its vicious MBA graduates, with its CEO having his lips dripping with the words of "game balance" and "computer-aided game facilitation" -- one day right there in Wizards little hacky gamers will be able to join hands with little thespy gamer boys and girls as sisters and brothers.

I have a dream today!

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; "and the glory of Gygax shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together."

This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the game table with.