Quote from: jrients;376017Well, the only thought provoked on my end is "What the hell is Seanchai going on about?  At this point I've been hearing about people who prefer system X to D&D because they like 'skill-based systems' better for friggin' decades.  Either he's got some great point that's going to provide some Buddha like enlightenment on my sorry ass or he is totally making shit up."

Well, that's what I thought at first, but .. I dunno. Imagine you are running Risus (or something) and characters come up to a door that is so heavy or stuck that it isn't clear whether or not it's going to open. How do you run that situation? I would just say.. "make a skill check". (Or maybe it's a strength check, I dunno Risus, really..) Wouldn't you? It's not the size of the dice we are rolling here, it's what you use it for.

Same with a search for traps.

I admit I never thought of those as skill checks before, and maybe they aren't.. but after all the stupidity in this thread, I thought it was worth thinking about.

As for the other topic-- I just don't understand why and how people get so angry and off topic about the participants in the argument rather than the topic itself?  Are skill checks that offensive? No. I get that you don't want to be seen agreeing with the wrong guy after modern gaming 'done you wrong' or whatever, but do you not see this?

Quote from: Benoist;376015You are, of course, speaking from a position of authority here. All hail your abys(s/m)al wisdom.

Hang on. If you're going to accuse someone of hypocrisy the least you can do is quote something they said, rather than someone else's characterization of them, which may or may not be accurate.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;376013See, it's kind of an interesting topic, and whether you agree or disagree (on what constitutes a skill check or when they appeared) it doesn't seem like it would ever be that controversial. I personally had never even thought of opening doors as a skill check before, but what would I use for that now? Probably an Athletics check.

But all these same douchebags ever do is turn these things into shouting matches after which they declare victory and begin chuffling each other when the entire thing becomes too exhausting to deal with.  

It's not the topic that's controversial, it's not even the fact that there's a grievous or heartfelt beef about the nature of skill checks. We have this shit here because Seanchai dared to participate in the thread in an on-topic and thought-provoking way.

Ok, I'll bite, what was so on-topic and thought provoking about responding to RandallS's posting that one of the things WotC included in D&D that older editions didn't that made him like older editions better was "All the skills, for the most part" by writing, "They exist in 1e."? The only thought that provoked in me was, "What a load of shit!"

Quote from: Fifth Element;376023Hang on. If you're going to accuse someone of hypocrisy the least you can do is quote something they said, rather than someone else's characterization of them, which may or may not be accurate.

You're free to check out the thread.
All threads AM wrecked in the recent years using always the same type of dishonest reasoning, for that matter.

Quote from: Sigmund;376020Edit: Ok, going to change this obscenity filled, defensive tourette's-like post to something else, trying to better myself after all.

I'm arguing with Seanchai because he attacked one of RandallS's stated prefences for 1e D&D over WotC editions by posting something vague, pointless, and just plain wrong and I decided to call him on it. I've now killed the horse, pumped a few more rounds into it, checked for a pulse, had a vet search for life-signs and find none, and then kicked it a few times just to make certain. So, the horse is dead and I'm going to stop kicking it and move on. If that makes me one of the "three dumbest motherfuckers" on the board, then so be it.

FWIW I wasn't counting you. Look, personal preferences are pretty much inviolable. People like what they like. Nobody needs an excuse to like (or dislike) anything. And you also really can't do much to change what a person likes or dislikes. Was Randall being "attacked for what he liked" or was he just being disagreed with? I know exactly what being attacked for what I like feels like--  probably a little too well, but I'm not sure that was what was going on.

Quote from: Benoist;376025You're free to check out the thread.

At this point I'd rather not, Ben. I skimmed it for the skill system bits and ignored the pointless name-calling bits.

But your linky was misleading.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;376022As for the other topic-- I just don't understand why and how people get so angry and off topic about the participants in the argument rather than the topic itself?  Are skill checks that offensive? No. I get that you don't want to be seen agreeing with the wrong guy after modern gaming 'done you wrong' or whatever, but do you not see this?

See: that's typical. The man just can't help himself.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;376026FWIW I wasn't counting you. Look, personal preferences are pretty much inviolable. People like what they like. Nobody needs an excuse to like (or dislike) anything. And you also really can't do much to change what a person likes or dislikes. Was Randall being "attacked for what he liked" or was he just being disagreed with? I know exactly what being attacked for what I like feels like--  probably a little too well, but I'm not sure that was what was going on.

Read the thread and judge for yourself.

Quote from: Sigmund;376029Read the thread and judge for yourself.

They aren't attacking each other. There's disagreement (people are even saying "That's bullshit", etc..), but it doesn't become vicious between Seanchai and Randall ever. Clearly they disagree. The first time it becomes a personal attack is right here.

It then escalates rapidly.

Same fucking guy every time.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;376032They aren't attacking each other. There's disagreement (people are even saying "That's bullshit", etc..), but it doesn't become vicious between Seanchai and Randall ever. Clearly they disagree. The first time it becomes a personal attack is right here.

It then escalates rapidly.

Same fucking guy every time.

Yeah, DeadUematsu has a penchant for shitting all over threads.  At which point you seem to be compelled to come in and shit them up some more by complaining about the stench of shit.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;376032They aren't attacking each other. There's disagreement (people are even saying "That's bullshit", etc..), but it doesn't become vicious between Seanchai and Randall ever. Clearly they disagree. The first time it becomes a personal attack is right here.

It then escalates rapidly.

Same fucking guy every time.

I'm not talking about personal attacks, That's not Seanchai's style anyway. He attacked RandallS's preference by trying to invalidate one of the stated reasons for it. I'm ignoring the personal attacks (for now anyway), and so should you. This is theRPGsite, personal attacks are allowed here (thank the internet gods), at least until RPGPundit says otherwise.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;376032Same fucking guy every time.

If you're going to attack, me, do so. Directly. Name names. But again, you're speaking from a position of authority on the matter. This is just your form of retaliation for the shit you stirred on the 4e and OSR thread, where you started the hostilities yourself in a conversation that was going great until you showed up. You just couldn't take it when I pointed it out. That, and of course, I'm giving you shit right here, right now. You have no excuse in this regard either, since you entered this thread with such a bang.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;376032They aren't attacking each other. There's disagreement (people are even saying "That's bullshit", etc..), but it doesn't become vicious between Seanchai and Randall ever. Clearly they disagree. The first time it becomes a personal attack is right here.

It then escalates rapidly.

Same fucking guy every time.

Personally, i'm not going to disagree with you.

Quote from: One Horse Town;376051Personally, i'm not going to disagree with you.

Gee thanks. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Benoist;376052Gee thanks. :rolleyes:

Nothing personal, old bean.

I can trace a gradual decline of this site back to when Pundit started publishing his own games and then when we got an influx of ENworld rejects.

It's just evolution. The kicker is that neither storygames nor the forge started it off. It's all our own work.