Quote from: camazotz;373161The fact that many people today and in retrospect disliked it and love to talk about how much they dislike it doesn't bother me; those were the kinds of gamers I was clearly avoiding back then anyway...boring simulationists who couldn't handle the much more interesting fluff and diversity 2E brought to the game.

Things in 2E I really liked:

Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, and the original Tome of Magic (it had Wild Magic in it..)

I really disliked the Forgotten Realms under 2E, but I am now in the process of rediscovering it. The 2E Forgotten Realms Adventures book is interesting: it's the transition book from 1E to 2E, this is even before they had the familiar 2e FR logo.

In this book, they had to eliminate entire countries, redraw parts of the map, create new deities, kill off and erase old ones.. and do away with entire classes and races, while re-introducing bards as a base class.

I couldn't find much about goblins busting through walls, so I know it won't meet the high standards of many people, but I really liked it.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;373289I couldn't find much about goblins busting through walls, so I know it won't meet the high standards of many people, but I really liked it.

LOL Idiot.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;373289I couldn't find much about goblins busting through walls, so I know it won't meet the high standards of many people, but I really liked it.

You know, the really amusing thing about that? The FRCG explains why there aren't guards on the walls, it explains how the goblins blew the wall open, and it explains exactly how the goblins knew where to go. (I happened to be rereading it the other day.)

Quote from: Thanlis;373340You know, the really amusing thing about that? The FRCG explains why there aren't guards on the walls, it explains how the goblins blew the wall open, and it explains exactly how the goblins knew where to go. (I happened to be rereading it the other day.)

Perhaps this didn't make it into the finnish translation*. I have to admit I only skimmed the (HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL) sample adventure part, I was mainly interested in the regional writeups (that I actually use).


* The guy who had the issue was finnish.

** Alternate explanation: The Fins are still mad about the Faerunization of Finnish deities from the Kalevala such as Loviatar?

Quote from: Thanlis;373340You know, the really amusing thing about that? The FRCG explains why there aren't guards on the walls, it explains how the goblins blew the wall open, and it explains exactly how the goblins knew where to go. (I happened to be rereading it the other day.)

I just looked at the Raid on Loudwater encounter (p. and I couldn't find any of that information.  Could you please tell us where did you found it?  What page and section?

Quote from: Drohem;373355I just looked at the Raid on Loudwater encounter (p. and I couldn't find any of that information.  Could you please tell us where did you found it?  What page and section?

On page 9, second column, second to last paragraph, we find that the goblin hexer has a scroll among his possessions. We also find that the contents of the scroll are listed on page 18. Page 18 talks about the scroll, and page 19 has the actual contents. First paragraph of the scroll:

"I learned through divinations that the totem is in a shop called Garwan's Curiosities in Loudwater. Go and retrieve it. Use the old barrel of alchemist's fire."

So the goblin leader has divination magic, knew where the target of the goblin raid was, and gave them a barrel of alchemist's fire to break the wall.  FWIW, one flask of Alchemist's Fire does 1d6 fire damage. A 10' wide wall made of stone would have, um, 80 hit points or so. So you'd want about 25 times a flask in the barrel, which I think is no problem. A hip flask is like six ounces, and a beer barrel is way more than 150 ounces. Or it's more potent alchemist's fire (i.e., level 6). Whichever.

Page 14 discusses the Loudwater Patrol, which is the local militia. Relevant quotes: "Loudwater's patrollers are not well trained" and "On average about four Patrol members are on duty at any one time." You've also got four guards on each of the gates (page 10), so it's not entirely surprising that there's nobody watching the southern wall on a non-stop basis. Loudwater isn't under siege, and it isn't a fortification.

Page 13 shows a map of the area. Note that the forest comes right up to the southern wall. This is terrible if you're trying to defend a castle, but we're not. I think there's a bit of a discontinuity in that page 10 also describes Loudwater as "well-defended," mind you. C'est la vie.

Quote from: Thanlis;373375On page 9, second column, second to last paragraph, we find that the goblin hexer has a scroll among his possessions.

Thanks.

Quote from: Bobloblah;372363Except for...wait for it...AD&D 2nd.  This one always puzzles me.  

I agree; I played plenty of 2e and so did all the gamers I knew during that period.  It's some kind of "hip to hate it now" thing because it's not retro-Old School or Still-Underway d20.  It'll be hip again in 10 years.

I liked and defended AD&D 2e way back on this site.

So, what is the best of 2e, rules-wise? Obviously you'd want the dmg, phb, and hardcover mm. The Player's Option books should be skipped. The Complete books are what worry/puzzle me.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;373522So, what is the best of 2e, rules-wise? Obviously you'd want the dmg, phb, and hardcover mm. The Player's Option books should be skipped. The Complete books are what worry/puzzle me.

I thought the Fighter, Cleric, and Mage books were alright.  The Cleric book is great if you want to trick out priests of specific deities or cults.  The Mage book is probably the weakest of the three.  I don't recall ever doing anything with the Thief book.

Quote from: jrients;373526I thought the Fighter, Cleric, and Mage books were alright.  The Cleric book is great if you want to trick out priests of specific deities or cults.  The Mage book is probably the weakest of the three.  I don't recall ever doing anything with the Thief book.

The completes server 2 purposes. Additional rules and additional RP opportunities.

The Fighter and Priest are the best on the rule front (note the Psionist is good on rules if you like PSi - which I don't in fantasy games).

They are all good at the roleplay side though. Examples of ways to play wizards outside the bloke in the tall hat with the fireball spell is useful. The complete bard has some great RP ideas.

The complete races are similarly okay.

The only thing you must never ever use is in the otherwise fine complete ranger there is a tree with 3 arms... as a PC .... never ever ever let anyone use this - also drop the rangers 2 weapon style specialism cos it's stupid and has zero logic in term of game balance, roleplay justification or anything else.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;373522So, what is the best of 2e, rules-wise? Obviously you'd want the dmg, phb, and hardcover mm.

Rules-wise that is all you need. AD&D2 shines when it comes to the settings. Even the most stupid of the settings had a lot to offer.

Tome of Magic!!!! Just as AM said.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;373522The Player's Option books should be skipped.

Actually, I go against the popular choice, there. I loved the Player's Option books when I found out about them (i.e. when they came out, actually), and still think that they were great, exactly as they were intended: toolboxes destined to make whatever you want out of the fairly tight system that was AD&D. On the actual implementation it did suck, but the intent to provide tools for people to customize mechanical aspects of the game, be able to play monsters, etc was a good one, IMO.