Quote from: ColonelHardisson;361819All I can say is that shop owners need to hire people who actually enjoy the fact they're lucky enough to be working in a game shop and let the surly slackers go dig ditches or unload trucks if it's too much to ask for them to be helpful and friendly.

Overall, I agree with this sentiment, however in certain urban locations (I'm thinking about Shattuk Ave in Berkeley during the mid 90's) you need an asshole behind the counter, because aside from dealing with customers they are also going to have to eject drunks and crazy people from the store. Having worked in such a place I can tell you that after dealing with a jackass, which can pretty much be a daily occurrence, it's difficult to turn off the surly later- and often one is ill advised to do so. Crazy people and drunks in your store will do more damage to your customer base than surly salesfolk.

Late Response to the Thread title:

YES the FLGS can be saved - mainly by LOTS of gamers going to stores and then buying and playing games at those stores!!!



Hell, this past Monday - during a blizzard locally- two guys came in to play WARHAMMER 40K at our tables.  Sad thing is the Mall closed early barely 15 to 20 minutes after they got their stuff inside the store. The local city and county had declared a snow emergency.
The two guys took it in stride - and STILL bought a $30.00 WH40K item . (think it was a box of Tyranids)
They'll come back and play again.

The damn blizzard wasn't our fault.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;361932Late Response to the Thread title:

YES the FLGS can be saved - mainly by LOTS of gamers going to stores and then buying and playing games at those stores!!!

- Ed C.

Game stores have to give us a reason to come in and buy from them, whether its giving a slight discount or something else.

People shouldn't just go into a game store just because the owner feels for some reason he should be kept in business.

I have two local game stores, they are decent but I still buy online.  Because I love the discounts.

Personally I prefer my game stores to be somewhat cluttered, no malodorous clientele holding forth to disturb the browsing and occasional bargains and shop assistants who leave you to it.

That's also how I prefer my bookshops though and the smaller ones I like seem to be on the decline, so I accept that my preferences are unlikely to produce a successful store. I spend a very small proportion of my money on rpg material as it will generally go on boardgames or miniatures, so it's not a major priority for me and I think a store in the majority of locations needs to diversify, catering for a wider market and also encouraging them to try new things.

Out of interest, has a survey been done to show what proportions the sales of a mixed-media games store are likely to be?

- rpg materials
- minis
- ccgs
- boardgames
- books
- comics
- gaming paraphenalia (including dice)
- electronic media

One last thing, if there's going to be gaming in the store from a customer perspective I'd rather see miniatures games. I think they're more likely to lead to bigger sales on the whole and catch the attention of passers-by. It's easier to demo a game too. I think rpgs just edge out ccgs though, although from a store's perspective I suspect the ccgs bring in more revenue.

Quote from: Koltar;361932YES the FLGS can be saved - mainly by LOTS of gamers going to stores and then buying and playing games at those stores!!!

Hey, Ed. It's one of my greatest gaming bummers to live in the middle of buttfuck nowhere and not be able to go to the neighborhood FLGS to run some games for people I meet there.

There's a very cool gaming store in Port Coquitlam, in the Vancouver area, where my in-laws live. It's called Drexoll Games. They have some very cool gaming tables in the back, there, and a decent RPG selection. If I was living in the area, I would be running games there every other fucking week-end, I swear.

Personally I prefer my game stores to be somewhat cluttered, no malodorous clientele holding forth to disturb the browsing and occasional bargains and shop assistants who leave you to it.

That's also how I prefer my bookshops though and the smaller ones I like seem to be on the decline, so I accept that my preferences are unlikely to produce a successful store. I spend a very small proportion of my money on rpg material as it will generally go on boardgames or miniatures, so it's not a major priority for me and I think a store in the majority of locations needs to diversify, catering for a wider market and also encouraging them to try new things.

Out of interest, has a survey been done to show what proportions the sales of a mixed-media games store are likely to be?

- rpg materials
- minis
- ccgs
- boardgames
- books
- comics
- gaming paraphenalia (including dice)
- electronic media

One last thing, if there's going to be gaming in the store from a customer perspective I'd rather see miniatures games. I think they're more likely to lead to bigger sales on the whole and catch the attention of passers-by. It's easier to demo a game too. I think rpgs just edge out ccgs though, although from a store's perspective I suspect the ccgs bring in more revenue.

I live in the suburbs north of Detroit. We only have two game stores left in this area that I know of. There are also a couple comic/collectible stores that sell a very limited selection of game products.

The one that has been around a few years longer is called Pandamonium. I didn't think they would make it when they started because they didn't have very much product. They do have a bunch of table space which is what I think kept them going early on. Since opening they have done really well Magic the Gathering (MtG) and miniature game tournaments. Now they have  a huge selection of MtG cards and miniatures,  and accessories for both. They also have a decent selection of card and boxed games like Munchkin and role-playing books and accessories.

Pandemonium

The other store is Guild of Blades. This store has only been around about two years and is a pretty small store. They have a couple tables in the back for gaming but it is tight. The selection of games including used product is one of the best I have seen overall. However, the selection of cards and miniatures is a little small. They also have cool customer rewards program where you earn free products from everything you buy.

Guild of Blades

Someone in my blog's comment section said it best:  That the FLGS's that need to be saved won't make it.   Those that are good will stick around.

I think all varieties of brick and mortar bookstores are essentially doomed.
I give them about a decade and a half.

At this point, for me, it doesn't really matter if game stores survive or not...
There are 3 stores in my area (that I know of) that have a sizeable space devoted to gaming materials... but all of them concentrate on only the top selling stuff... Warhammer/40K/Warmachine/D&D 4e... none of which I'm interested in.
Meanwhile, online I can get exactly what I want for a price that's cheaper than the stores would ever offer it anyway.

If a gaming club were to form, that went in for more than a small handful of games... I'd definitely consider joining and paying dues. But a B&M store, with a store's motivations of profit over all else... is not of much use to me at this point.

Quote from: Aos;362180I think all varieties of brick and mortar bookstores are essentially doomed.
I give them about a decade and a half.

Nope. Some are going to make it. Others won't.
I actually agree with the guy Daedalus talked about upthread who commented on his blog.

How many blockbusters are there open in your neighborhood? They are all closed here.  Same thing with hollywood video. We've got like one or two rental places for a city of half a million people.  Blockbuster came in during the early years of the VHS boom they destroyed virtually all the independents within a couple of years- not unlike what B&N and Borders have done to independent bookstores. Eventually, though, what comes around goes around, netflix showed up and has pretty much wiped out Blockbuster in the RL. Blockbuster is fighting back with their own online option, but the brick and mortar stores are thin on the ground now.
Inside of five years things like the kindle will be $100 bucks. More expensive ones will have color displays. Used ones will go fro 50 bucks (I'm highballing all these numbers, really, imo).
Ebooks cost much less to print than paper books. Paper books often lose money and end up getting remaindered. Ebooks are virtual, publishers will not get stuck with tons and tons of inventory. they wont have to pay to store that tons and tons of inventory in warehouses. they wont have to pay for returns Their profits will be higher; their risks will be lower.  And unlike netflix, ebooks can deliver instant gratification. i want to read it tonight. I buy it online and I've got it a minute later. That is a fucking really strong selling point. How long before some of them decide to get out of paper publishing altogether? Not very long, imo.
For the consumer it will be great, too, though, because new authors will be far more likely to get epublished than they would get paper published. Comcis may well become affordable again.
Sure some stores will survive, you know like Sam Goody in the mall, sellign to the hold outs who insist on paper copy. but they'll almost never have what you really want.  there will be used bookstores too, of course.
Really, I think 15 is likely 20 years on the outside. Keep in mind too the generations behind us wont/don't have our sentimental attachment to books, or brick and mortar stores in general. Buying on line is a way of life for them.
Of course, nobody knows for sure, but then again, I was fucking certain that netflix and mp3 would fail.

The problem for me was distance - it was quite a drive for a game store, then the owner closed down and moved back up north. So, my husband opened an online store. We want to have a real brick-and-mortar place in a few years, and we've already gotten some planning down on what to do - location and I want to have a small sandwich place to add to income and hopefully cut down on the delivery - pizza and sauce-covered foods aren't good for the place!

But we couldn't afford the expansion before, and it's harder now that we're seeing the slowdown thanks to the economy.

Game stores need to know their audience - stock what the customers want, and you'll get sales. You can't carry just your pet games and ignore the rest.

It reminds me of the way people were claiming paper was dead the day emails became popular in businesses. It just didn't happen. Why? People like to flip through a book. To hold the memo instead of searching for it through their files. Like the smell of books. Flip through its pages. The covers, the bookmarks, production values of professional printers, etc. Like the tradition of it, too.

I don't see paper RPGs disappearing altogether. Sure, the electronic market will continue to grow, and that is a good thing, for sure, but the paper RPGs won't disappear, just like paper didn't disappear from businesses at the end of the 90s.

As for the doom of the hobby, people have been claiming the death of our hobby since the 80s, if not earlier. Still hasn't happened.

I'll agree that hobby stores will have to adapt, and some of them are already. Point is, you can't have a hobby store with a business based solely on RPGs anymore. It just isn't viable. But some survive. And will continue to survive, IMO.

Quote from: Aos;362188How many blockbusters are there open in your neighborhood? They are all closed here.  Same thing with hollywood video. We've got like one or two rental places for a city of half a million people.

No more Blockbusters nearby.  Can't think of any offhand which are still around in other parts of town.

The only "brick and mortar" video rental outlets nearby I can think of offhand, are kiosks in nearby grocery stores.  Other than that, it's easier to go to Wal-Mart and just buy the actual dvd if one really wants it for 10 bucks or less.