What's the minimum number of character attributes you've found workable in a game system?

The standard seems to be five to eight, but they can end up lopsided by having, say, a single attribute to represent intellect, "emotional intelligence", and personal magnetism, while dividing strength, endurance and agility into different categories.

How much is necessary to portray actors in the game world in enough detail?

I haven't looked at Tri-Stat yet.  Does having three attributes work?

Three attribute stats for pure combat with very little to no role playing:

- strength
- dexterity
- "mana" or "psyche" (for lack of a better term, for magical abilities in combat)

Quote from: Hairfoot;349763What's the minimum number of character attributes you've found workable in a game system?

3, but I haven't tried any with less.

Quote from: Hairfoot;349763How much is necessary to portray actors in the game world in enough detail?

I find that adjectives portray the actors in much better detail than crunchy numbers in game. Even though games (like D&D) have point scales, I have personally found that the players don't even think about them twice in terms of portraying their characters. As soon as I asked the players to put an adjective describing each statistic in relation to their characters on the character sheet (because backgrounds got forgotten all too quickly), they started acting out the characters with more colour and verve.

Quote from: Hairfoot;349763I haven't looked at Tri-Stat yet.  Does having three attributes work?

Yup, it might not work in every case, but with a decent supporting system it works.

(Continuing from my previous post).

For defenses in combat, the three combat attack abilities correlate to particular defenses:

strength -> fortitude

dexterity -> reflex

"mana" or "psyche" -> will

I don't know what the minimum is, but I don't like games with a lot of attributes like Sengoku. 4 attributes à la GURPS is fine by me.

Quote from: Hairfoot;349763I haven't looked at Tri-Stat yet.  Does having three attributes work?

The Tri-Stat system provides my answer to your initial question: Three attributes.  However, slightly at odds with ggroy's response, they are Body, Mind, and Spirit.

The main criticism of the Tri-Stat array was that it led to a rather "granular" approach to how attributes affect the world about the character.  My response was to create intersections of each attribute, which I think some iterations of the Tri-Stat system also used.  So, for me, the three-point array inevitably led to a six-point derivative array:

Body --> Dexterity / Reflexes <-- Mind
Mind --> Wisdom / Will  <-- Spirit
Spirit --> Constitution / Fortitude <-- Body

I don't recall if those were the terms I used, but they ended up covering the Big Six of early RPGs.  Still, you could easily boil it back down to three.

!i!

3 covers everything from combat to social interaction to magic . Easy

Prowess
Lore
Guile

Quote from: Hairfoot;349763What's the minimum number of character attributes you've found workable in a game system?

None!  You can do fine by just having skills and advantages/disadvantages, or generic traits.  

See, for example, Over the Edge as an example of a game with no attributes.  Instead, you just have one central trait and two side traits, along with a flaw.

Anywhere between 3 to 9 seems to work best, with 4-6 probably being the sweet spot for me.

Quote from: Hairfoot;349763What's the minimum number of character attributes you've found workable in a game system?

Zero.

I once played a system that was a derivative of Over the Edge. Characters had three traits that were backgrounds, hobbies, or occupations.
[Edit: D'oh. Scooped by jhkim.]

But I am the first to agree that those systems can have problems when you just need a raw ability, like strength. Does "Cop 4" count?

Quote from: Hairfoot;349763Does having three attributes work?

In a more traditional game three attributes can work, and my choice would be Str, Dex, Mind (the M20 setup), or Toughness, Reflex, and Will (the D&D saves). I'd prefer 4 (+Cha) or 5 attributes (depending on genre) , though.

I wrote another game in which characters have only three attributes, but I used a cop-out: There are nine possible attributes in that game (each with its own list of skills attached). Initially, each character has a value of 0 in all of the attributes. A player chooses three attributes and divides 6 points among them. (With the selection of the attributes the player also gets access to the corresponding skills, and may choose 6 skills from the three lists.) So on the character sheet there are only three attributes written down - those that differ from the default of 0. (All rolls are attribute rolls, 2d6+relevant attribute.)

I don't know how well those rules support long-term play as I used them only in one-shots.

I find 3 workable. Four can be ideal. A lot depends on what the attributes cover, and how they cover it.  I prefer them to do something well, than be widespread.

Quote from: jhkim;349782None!  You can do fine by just having skills and advantages/disadvantages, or generic traits.

Which, if you're flexible with the definition of "attributes", fall under the same category.

QuoteSee, for example, Over the Edge as an example of a game with no attributes.  Instead, you just have one central trait and two side traits, along with a flaw.

Right.  So that's four.

!i!

My experiences and thought experiences say "3." With one, characters are just graded, not differentiated, and with two, you basically just have a flat tradeoff, which is either worth it, or not worth it, or the scores should be even. With three, it's nearly impossible for one character to do it all.

For a good game system, probably four. Over the Edge, Ghostbusters, Toon, and a few other games get by on four.

I still have a plan to run a game at a con where the players get to decide the system by vote and I ad lib the entire plot. In this case they would decide by a vote how may attributes they wanted and how they would be generated.
It would be interesting to see what stats and what system of generation emerged as the most popular over a series of such games. I woudl suspect you would default to 6 stats int eh D&D model as most cmmon.

Quote from: jibbajibba;349917I still have a plan to run a game at a con where the players get to decide the system by vote and I ad lib the entire plot. In this case they would decide by a vote how may attributes they wanted and how they would be generated.

If you ever pull this through you have to come back and report!