I do get the author's point  that roleplaying games should be "player-centric" in that frankly players is all they've got. The game isn't being filmed for posterity or quality audited by a third party. As the poster says the players are the game's only audience, so why not try to please them? And games in which the players consistently fail (however fairly), end up looking like chumps or worse still are outshined by NPCs rarely last very long.

However in my opinion uncrtitical, automatic validation of whatever the players do or want will eventually cheapen the experience. For it to be meaningful, the right to live out one's fantasies (I would not necessarily phrase it that way, but sticking to the original poster's way of putting it) has to be earned, which is where the risk of failure comes into play and which is also one of the reason you cannot really count on a game having a pleasing story each time.

The funny thing is the two extremes kind of GMs, the strict GM who only allows things the fit with his visions and the collusive GM that goes along with whatever the players say both end up depriving the players of any meaningful choices.

Is this quoted post even real?  It has the ring of "Dear Penthouse Forum, You're never going to believe this, but..."  I mean, this is like dog meat for the likes of Pundy.  I'm getting a whiff of barnyard.

!i!

Perhaps the original quote was "Story games are more rewarding than having your period."

Anyway it sounds like an argument that video games are better in 'cheat mode', to which the counter-argument is "not for very long."

Quote from: Peregrin;343170:confused:

Shit.  Even most Forge games don't go this far.  

It is however, a very accurate description of the RPGnet school of Exalted play.

Quote from: jeff37923;343171Well, yes. You are the one who is not original enough in your thoughts so that you have to drag an ENworld thread here and then asked what people thought about your action.

Sorry if it makes you look foolish and unoriginal, but that is what you set yourself up for.

As a trolling attempt, you get a 0/10.

If you will look on the thread list, you will find several threads from other boards (An Interesting Post on Realism, Ryan Dancey Post, etc..), and other blogs.  Heck the entire " WoTC Doesn't Want Fan Sites?" thread was started by Pundit quoting someone on EnWorld. For some reason you didn't voice an objection to other threads like this one until it was me.  

And, you continue to reply here.  If it really held no interest at all for you, you would never click on this thread again after the first time.

You don't have to participate.  Nobody is twisting your arm Jeff.  I'm sorry if the mere existence of this thread, which others seem happy to discuss, bothers you.  I suggest you simply don't read it if you have an issue with it, or me.

Quote from: Age of Fable;343180Anyway it sounds like an argument that video games are better in 'cheat mode', to which the counter-argument is "not for very long."

agreed...or like those weird "development league" sports groups for children where no scores are kept and everyone wins.

i can appreciate the "it should be a blast for everyone"-kinda vibe, but the GM has to enjoy the game as well.  if the GM just becomes a facilitator to the every whim of the players...hell, just start the session with "...and you all live happily ever after" and go home.

Quote from: Mistwell;343186You don't have to participate.  Nobody is twisting your arm.  If you have something constructive to say, please do say it.

Sometimes to be constructive you have to be destructive first. Before you can build something useful, you have to tear down the old mess and clear it away.

The original article doesn't need a detailed analysis. It's obviously wrong, because most gamers don't show up to the game session hoping the GM will give them a handjob.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;343188Sometimes to be constructive you have to be destructive first. Before you can build something useful, you have to tear down the old mess and clear it away.

The original article doesn't need a detailed analysis. It's obviously wrong, because most gamers don't show up to the game session hoping the GM will give them a handjob.

OK you're right.  Constructive was the wrong word, and destructive would be useful as well.  I should have said "Do you have anything to say on the topic".

Jeff's objection is to me posting the topic at all, and to me personally.  He has yet to opine as to the actual subject.

And as for the subject, I really wanted to check my own reaction against others.  My own reaction was "Say what? That's some crazy shit right there.  That would be a really boring game really quick".

And I have to admit, the "Is this really an RPG" discussion came to mind.  If all the DM is doing is fulfilling his players wildest dreams and whims, I'm not sure if that is an RPG.

Quote from: Mistwell;343189He has yet to opine as to the actual subject.

Because the subject from the ENworld thread is obvious crap. Even you think so. If you took Average Gamer's idea and implemented it, the result would be a Monty Haul campaign.

Quote from: Mistwell;343189And as for the subject, I really wanted to check my own reaction against others.  My own reaction was "Say what? That's some crazy shit right there.  That would be a really boring game really quick".

So why didn't you say that in your OP?

If you could kill a muppet, which one would it be, and how would you go about it?

Quote from: J Arcane;343181It is however, a very accurate description of the RPGnet school of Exalted play.

Haven't been around RPGnet long enough to know how they play Exalted.  Some of them may not like the way I run Exalted, though.

Quote from: Mistwell;343189And I have to admit, the "Is this really an RPG" discussion came to mind.  If all the DM is doing is fulfilling his players wildest dreams and whims, I'm not sure if that is an RPG.

Of course it's still an rpg.

I mean, a lame, boring and stupid movie is still a movie.

Quote from: Aos;343191If you could kill a muppet, which one would it be, and how would you go about it?

They're felt and fabric - just once or twice through the washer and dryer set on the wrong settings intentionally and they're a wrinkled tattered  mess.



- Ed C.

Quote from: jeff37923;343190Because the subject from the ENworld thread is obvious crap. Even you think so. If you took Average Gamer's idea and implemented it, the result would be a Monty Haul campaign.



So why didn't you say that in your OP?

I wanted to check my reaction, which is usually best done when you don't bias the responders by telling them your opinion up front.

Utter bullshit.