I had a House Rule compromise in my games (although I don't think anyone ever got a demi-human high enough to take advantage of it):

1.  Level limits stand as per RAW.
2.  The extra levels for high ability scores as per Unearthed Arcana apply.
3.  Once the level limit for high ability scores was reached, then a 20% experience point penalty was applied and progression was unlimited.

IIRC, I choose the number of 20% because, let's face it, most all character had a high enough score by that point to earn a 10% bonus for their primary ability score.  This way, they would only suffer a 10% penalty after their maximum level is attained under the RAW.

I used to use a 66% XP penalty over listed max.

Quote from: T. Foster;342319You know, I'd consider on a case-by-case basis letting a demi-human character surpass their level limit if, in exchange for doing so, they were willing to give up all their racial bonuses in combat, to saving throws, infravision, dropped all but one of their classes, etc. So you've got your 14th level magic-user who you call an "elf" and he acts like an elf and looks like an elf, but he doesn't have infravision, 90% resistance to sleep & charm, immunity to ghoul paralysis, bonus to find secret doors, surprise bonus, +1 to hit w/ swords & bows, and can't multiclass (and if he was multiclassed previously he loses all abilities in his other class). I wonder how many players would take that bargain -- I suspect most of them would still complain and want to have it both ways -- all the cool racial bonuses and unlimited levels.

I would complain because it doesn't make any sense. It would be like wondering if anyone would complain if you let them play an ogre, but they would be medium-sized, have no ability score modifiers, and be able to advance in all classes to unlimited levels. Also, they would gain automatic proficiency in playing the piccolo. Common ogre names include Pixiewinkle, Dagwood, and Warren Zevon.

No. This hypothetical elf would still be 5' tall, have pointy ears, act like an elf (and use the elf racial reaction chart), speak elf languages, and have elf ability score modifiers. He just wouldn't have all the normal game-mechanical benefits that come with being an elf and make it a better mechanical choice than playing a human. If it's really the flavor of playing an elf that's important to the player he still gets that, he just doesn't get combat bonuses, spell immunities, and so on. The game-level reasoning is obvious. In-milieu you can make up whatever handwave works -- that by devoting himself so fully to a single facet of existence he necessarily loses touch with some portion of his essential elfiness or some such.

This may be interesting (or not

My mum used to have this great racial idea she ran. Her world had had 6 races who were epitomes of perfection, like Numenoreans in a LOTR sense . OVer the millenia they had all interbred making mongrel mixes.

There were 8ish (i forget the detail) racial features, skin colour, hair type, height, build, eyes etc etc. Each PC rolled a d6 for each one. This determined what each PC looked like but when PCs got 3 racial features the same they got a bonus, either combat or magical or stat based. If you have 4 the same you got another etc etc ..

Now this works on a science genetic level, it worked very well in her game and it was nice to get these mixed up guys.

She also ran a game where each PC was racially perfect (This was part of a novel she was writing based on game play) and thus had real special powers and some uber quest they were trying to complete.  

I might nick this idea and reuse it again now I think of it.

Quote from: noisms;341931I don't know about anybody else, but my point was that these days it's less acceptable (or, let's say, more controversial) to talk about things like "racial difference" openly. The entire concept sounds outmoded to most people, especially those who consider themselves liberals or leftists,

Do we have to talk about the idological purity of the master party AGAIN?

Levels limits? I ignore them.

Quote from: Malleus Arianorum;342552Do we have to talk about the idological purity of the master party AGAIN?

I dunno, is that supposed to be some sort of jibe at liberals? I'm not one, by the way.

I should point out, as others have, that in most games this never becomes an issue. Its rare for a game of D&D (old style) to get further than 15th level. If you are, you are really talking about some very serious power levels.

Aside from that, well, in "Basic D&D", you can get demihumans gaining "Attack ranks", essentially their combat bonuses keep going up with XP.  That resolves most of the issues.

We played a rare 1-36th level D&D campaign, and one of our PCs was a halfling (maxes-out at level . He managed to keep being effective and useful in general until the very highest levels of "Master" gaming (levels 26-36 or so) where only there he started to really feel the difference.

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Quote from: RPGPundit;342684We played a rare 1-36th level D&D campaign, and one of our PCs was a halfling (maxes-out at level . He managed to keep being effective and useful in general until the very highest levels of "Master" gaming (levels 26-36 or so) where only there he started to really feel the difference.

From a strictly rules perspective, if your game has 36 levels planned out, 8th level is a very bad place to cap a particular race.

Regarding level limits in 1E AD&D, the Githyanki and Githzerai (techinically not PC races, but whatever) had hard level limits.  I always liked how there was a justification buit into the races' backstories:  their immortal leaders would kill them if they rose over a certain level (11 and 9, respectively, if memory serves).

I feel like level limits were more for world building than real play. In original Dragon Lance, Huma Dragonbane was only 9th level. Tanis only ever reached 12th. You could easily solo an adult black dragon at 7th.

The whole D&D experience could be handled by 10th level, and anything higher is just wankery, in my opinion.

Quote from: StormBringer;342698From a strictly rules perspective, if your game has 36 levels planned out, 8th level is a very bad place to cap a particular race.

Not as it turns out, not if you have things like attack ranks and additional skills and weapon masteries above maximum level.
Effectively speaking, the only thing that stopped changing were saving throws and hit points, and that's not really such a huge deal.

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Quote from: RPGPundit;342841Not as it turns out, not if you have things like attack ranks and additional skills and weapon masteries above maximum level.
Effectively speaking, the only thing that stopped changing were saving throws and hit points, and that's not really such a huge deal.

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I would say hit point can potentially be a game breaker, but if you can advance other skills to more or less keep up, it simply turns into a skill-based game instead of class-and-level after a certain point for those races.

Which might just make for a decent premise in a general game.

Quote from: StormBringer;342870I would say hit point can potentially be a game breaker, but if you can advance other skills to more or less keep up, it simply turns into a skill-based game instead of class-and-level after a certain point for those races.

Which might just make for a decent premise in a general game.

There were a couple of situations for our Halfling where his low HP got him in trouble (and by "in trouble" I mean to say it killed him), but the other PCs would just resurrect him. Generally, since he had wicked-good AC and Saving Throws by then, it wasn't too big a deal.

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