Quote from: Joethelawyer;341029His points sound familiar from the ENWorld days.  Plus any first poster that comes out swinging in the way he did, with anger and a point to make, along with a shitload of knowledge on a specific narrow point, I automatically suspect as being a sockpuppet.

Sockpuppet ? If I'm not mistaken this only applies if he/she already has an account here. Of late, we have been getting many ENWorld refugees and their Pursuers. Wouldn't surprise me if he/she is someone you knew from the old country. Still, I see "who are you" I get a tad uneasy. That's not the kind of atmosphere I want here.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: JRT;341013When licenses are pulled, it's a time for introspection and analysis.

I think you have that backwards, or Gygax Games did anyway.

Quote from: Girl;341030At leadst no one here.

So why dont you enlighten us then? No? Dont know shit about it either, huh? Back under your bridge troll. The adults are talking.

Quote from: David R;341028Who cares ? First post and coming out swinging is perfectly acceptable here.

Quite so.  And don't stop.

Quote from: Mistwell;341021No, it is not.  Gygax Games is a DBA of Trigee Enterprises Co.. Same company.  It is in their press releases, like the Mongoose press release.

Actually I think I was trying to correct that Trigee "renamed" themselves.  If DBA just means legally you're doing it under another name, I guess I understand.  The point I was trying to make was that Trigee hasn't gone anywhere.

As far as my "first post" goes...well, JtL, I'm known on ENWorld as "John R. Troy".  You can also find my name on Gary's other products, albeit in minor ways.

The big point I was trying to make is that I'm a little annoyed at how we treat Gail.  I do know that Gary's legacy is something she wants to protect.  While I can understand some criticism, to be honest, I know for a fact Gary would not tolerate the things people are saying about Gail--even if she deviates from Gary's personal preferences.   Obviously, she had some reasons for pulling existing contracts.  

The whole thing about money is sort of laughable.  Game design is not a hugely lucrative business.  But--Gary, did care about money, at least in the long term.  This vision of Gygax sacrificing himself for his artistic principles is a little false.  He wanted creative control, yes, but he also wanted to make money.  Some fans seem to think she should rush to small press publication or release EGG's work "to the public domain", as one fan wrote to her.  (And I honestly think EGG did Castle Zagyg in part to make more money--he didn't seem as passionate to me about that project as Lejendary Adventure, and he avoided developing the castle for years).

QuoteI think you have that backwards, or Gygax Games did anyway.

No, not really.  The key thing I think is that Gail wants to have tight control and needs to cancel existing contracts so she can be involved.   Gary was able to devote his life to gaming because Gail had a "civilian" job.  I think that alone speaks volumes.  

I guess the main point is--it's my belief if you have any debt or respect for Gary, I think we should just wait patiently for Gail to do what she needs to do, regardless if it takes years.  I'm getting the sense that people aren't as truly concerned with Gary's wishes as they are with seeing his work (and usually only a certain work in a particular format that is true to the person's personal preferences), rather than respecting the man and understanding that element of things, which is why I label that "selfish".

Quote from: JRT;341070As far as my "first post" goes...well, JtL, I'm known on ENWorld as "John R. Troy".  You can also find my name on Gary's other products, albeit in minor ways.

That's why your post sounded so familiar.

Quote from: Koltar;341031Like I said, it might bbe B.S. or it might be true.

I'm sorry, what evidence exactly is there that it's true? Jesus wept.

You know how sometimes you read a post from some guy who says "wow, I went into my FLGS and the guy behind the counter said that game line X was out of print but I know that's not true because I just bought direct from the manufacturer"? And you go "Wow, those FLGS clerks will believe any old thing a distributor tells them!" I bet I could find one or two of those threads on this very board if I looked.

THIS IS WHY.

Gygax disliked the direction of D&D as early as third edition. WotC published thousands of pages of Greyhawk material for third edition, and they've published Greyhawk material for fourth edition -- not just any Greyhawk material, but material based on something Gygax wrote himself. If he had /any/ ability to prevent WotC from printing new Greyhawk material, the Village of Hommlet revamp wouldn't be sitting in my bookshelf.

This is like some guy walking into the store and saying "hey, the sky's green." You walk out of the store and the sky is blue. You do not say "well, could be true..."

I can post a photo of the 4e Greyhawk module if you want. Seriously.

P.S.: I got nothing against what Gail Gygax is doing. I hope she gets the material out; I might even buy it. I dig the Greyhawk and I have ever since I got the boxed set with the super-cool hex map.

Quote from: JRT;341070The big point I was trying to make is that I'm a little annoyed at how we treat Gail.

We? How many of us do you suspect have any contact with Gygax's wife? (I'm leaving this one wide open for the enterprising among us...)

Or do you mean comments about her on message boards? If it's this, well, then she needs to cowboy up. It's time for her to be a Big Girl. She's the owner of a business now. She is, at least in our little niche, a public figure. People are going to say things.

Quote from: JRT;341070I'm getting the sense that people aren't as truly concerned with Gary's wishes as they are with seeing his work (and usually only a certain work in a particular format that is true to the person's personal preferences), rather than respecting the man and understanding that element of things, which is why I label that "selfish".

Are you just now picking up on that? Duh. Just like any other celebrity or movement, people only care about Gygax in so much as said caring provides them with something.

Actually caring about Gygax as a person (and this extends to his wishes) is the domain of his friends. And meeting Gygax for three minutes at a con in 1992 or exchanging messages with him over the Interweb (despite what some may wish or believe) does not actually make one his friend. The vast, vast majority of gamers fall into that latter camp, the people who weren't his friends.

So if you're expecting gamers in general to treat him as a friend, well, prepare for some rough seas ahead.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;341105Are you just now picking up on that? Duh. Just like any other celebrity or movement, people only care about Gygax in so much as said caring provides them with something.

Well, that's a little bit cynical, though I take from your tone you're that way in general.  I did see a lot of outpouring of grief from fans regarding EGG's death.  Not everybody see's thing in that clinical term, there are fans who can behave decently.  I noticed for instance that many people elsewhere did not attack Gail and instead agreed with me.  (And to be honest, if I wasn't Gary's friend I probably would be defending Gail anyway, as I would in general).

And I think it's okay to point out the general selfishness of that.  Basically what I don't like is hypocrisy, where I agree with you that people who don't know Gary personally think others can understand him better than his wife of over 20 years.

Getting back on subject.

Erik Mona mentions a few things:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/planetStories/general/gordTheRogue62w92&page=1

It looks like Gary had a few "handshake" deals with Peter Atkinson, so there might be more involved.

Quote from: JRT;341116Getting back on subject.

Erik Mona mentions a few things:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/planetStories/general/gordTheRogue62w92&page=1

It looks like Gary had a few "handshake" deals with Peter Atkinson, so there might be more involved.

Interesting.

That might be the source of the rumor - at least indirectly through a gamer version of 'telephone'.

JRT,  I got no beef with you in one direction or the other. The OP was just the repeating of an interesting rumor that I heard.  Your argument seems to be with others that have posted in the thread.

Personally, I hope the Gygax family has many, many happy years ahead and they do whatever they like with the older writings of Gary that get them the most money and security.

Peter Adkinson always seemed like a nice guy all the times I've met and talked with him. It wouldn't be surprising if he had an understanding or handshake agreement or two with Gary Gygax about different things over the years.


- Ed C.

Adkison. It's Adkison, people. Not Atkinson, or Adkinson.

Quote from: Koltar;341118JRT,  I got no beef with you in one direction or the other. The OP was just the repeating of an interesting rumor that I heard.  Your argument seems to be with others that have posted in the thread.

To be fair, when I was ranting I wasn't particularly targeting this thread or its creator, but the one post regarding Gary's family, as well as general complaints elsewhere.

PA was great to both Gary and Dave.  I believe Dave got to give away his original Blackmoor supplement via PDF, and while Dave had to license Blackmoor to publish it, I doubt Dave or his estate ever had to pay much for it.  (But Blackmoor is not as intertwined with D&D as Greyhawk is.)

Quote from: JRT;341115I did see a lot of outpouring of grief from fans regarding EGG's death.

Sure. People mourn celebrities. Doesn't mean they actually care about them as people or, to be honest, grieve that deeply.

Again, I think that to many folks Gygax represented not a person per se, but an icon from which they derived various bits of gaming and enjoyment. I don't think it's odd that after his death, they continue to see him more as a gaming icon than a person of a friend.

Seanchai

Uh huh.. so this was all based on Gaming Store Talk. That most reliable of sources... :rolleyes:

Seriously, if every idiotic utterance I ever heard said at a Game Store as though it were Bible Truth were actually fact, the hobby, industry, yea, the entire world would be a very weird place.

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