Quote from: jeff37923;332952It still isn't worth it now. That does not erase the douchebaggery of the past.

You're the one who called attention to it though, so why are you bitching about the very thing you did?  And you called it spineless, and attention whoring, neither of which was accurate.  And rather than acknowledge that, you've turned into a moving target, resorting to generic unprovoked insults.  He was not upset over it, so why are you whiteknighting him?  I was not calling attention to it, so why are you?

Quote from: jeff37923;332957Probably from a game software company that didn't steal someone else's patented intellectual property. I don't think this will affect tabletop gaming at all.

They just sued the gaming companies that have a 90%+ share of all MMORPGs. Everquest. World Of Warcraft. DDO Online. LOTR Online, and Runescape, the as yet unreleased Aion,  and of course already settled for Halo. They have a precedent. That's a slam dunk for any decent legal team.

That means it'll cost more to play those games. Much more if they get a big settlement. If the game companies decide to still offer the games at all. (I see Blizzard settling, they are big enough to roll with it.)

How does tabletop gaming not get affected by this scenario? Which other MMORPGs are going to fill the gap?

Tbh, WoW and Lineage are the only real mass online games, and Blizzard will settle and Linage will ignore it if they try and sue. Sony might just settle too, they certainly can afford too. What will not happen under any circumstances is a price rise if its going to lead to less income (and either Blizzard or Sony dropping their MMORPGs line is simply unthinkable).

That lawsuit won't go anywhere.  Anyone dreaming of this being the death knell of the MMO is fucking delusional.

These kinds of patent trolls come and go on an almost monthly basis, and every one of them either gets buried in legal wrangling that never resolves or gets dropped, or settles for a pittance.  

If you're looking for some sort of lawsuit to get your edition war hackles up over, you should really be looking at the Turbine vs. Atari suit over whether Atari breached contract by pursuing their rumored NWN 4e MMO.

EDIT:  However, it's pretty obvious to me, given the sudden complete lack of inthread context for the posts from some of the people here, that the conversation at present isn't about MMO suits at all, but a couple people's wierd crossboard squabble, and I might suggest they take said squabbles to PM or email or whatever board they came from.

This thread was incoherent enough as it is without people engaging in conversations that don't seem to have even started on this board.

Quote from: Mistwell;332958I was not calling attention to it, so why are you?

Because shitbag, you had the temerity to attempt to elevate your behavior in ranting above Koltar's, when you are no better.

You shilled for ENWorld, attempted to improve your position on that forum by trying to denigrate this one on ENWorld's daughter forum of Circvs Maximvs.

Fuck off, hypocrite.

Quote from: GameDaddy;332959

They just sued the gaming companies that have a 90%+ share of all MMORPGs. Everquest. World Of Warcraft. DDO Online. LOTR Online, and Runescape, the as yet unreleased Aion,  and of course already settled for Halo. They have a precedent. That's a slam dunk for any decent legal team.

That means it'll cost more to play those games. Much more if they get a big settlement. If the game companies decide to still offer the games at all. (I see Blizzard settling, they are big enough to roll with it.)

So what?

Quote from: GameDaddy;332959How does tabletop gaming not get affected by this scenario?

By not being economically wedded to MMORPGs.

Quote from: GameDaddy;332959Which other MMORPGs are going to fill the gap?

Who cares? MMORPGs are not tabletop RPGs nor are they so interconnected that the RPG industry would be hurt by this lawsuit.

Victory! :cool:

QuoteWhat is "shadowfell"?

Quote from: Mistwell;332906I strongly encourage you to read throug a copy of Open Grave.  It's probably the best written of the 4e books, and gives a very solid description of shadowfell.

Actually, the first time "shadowfell" was referenced in this thread (and that was the reference that triggered the question), it wasn't to the plane but the introductory module H1 "Keep on the Shadowfell". Everyone can download a free copy at WotC' webpage; it even comes with improved sections to make the adventure more coherent (e.g. the "boss" makes an immaterial early appearance to foreshadow the PC's final confrontation with him; originally, they just blundered into his room, realizing in round 1 of combat that he actually was the BBEG). Personally I think it actually better to get a newbie DM that free module, get him familiar with running the game, and then let him roam freely thereafter to create follow-up session material; instead of this templated session planning.

Back to "shadowfell" - even if the plane, and not the module, had been intended, I'd hardly recommend Open Grave as the best source on that. That honor would go to the 4E Manual of the Planes. While I think that book is abysmal in parts (and hardly a match for Open Grave in terms of overall value), I certainly liked the section on the Shadowfell, and that eery town they created in it (Gloom- something) which is like a Venice in twilight (twilight as in NightWatch).

Even free, the price is too high for H1!  Its shitfulness is right up there with the worst of the 2E modules.

Quote from: David R;332925Designing an adventure by committee, does not really work IME but this is for some convention shit or something, so who really gives a fuck.

It was a simple exercise intended to give everyone participating a small taste of adventure-building, and to show them that -- at least in the respect of balancing encounters -- it's not that hard. I doubt anyone expected the adventures produced to be story-driven epics. But then that was hardly the point. "This is how you make balanced encounters. This is how you play out those encounters." seems to be it. It's like training wheels, but I really have no problem with that since it was directed at n00bs.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;333012It was a simple exercise intended to give everyone participating a small taste of adventure-building, and to show them that -- at least in the respect of balancing encounters -- it's not that hard. I doubt anyone expected the adventures produced to be story-driven epics. But then that was hardly the point. "This is how you make balanced encounters. This is how you play out those encounters." seems to be it. It's like training wheels, but I really have no problem with that since it was directed at n00bs.

This is what got Ed's knickers in a twist ?

Jeebus, I miss the brawls between Stormbringer and Pseudoephedrine.

Regards,
David R

Well, as the hopeful positive capstone to this stupidity, I just want to say that I think anyone and everyone can GM, and everyone should at least give it a try, even if they never settle on it.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;333017Well, as the hopeful positive capstone to this stupidity, I just want to say that I think anyone and everyone can GM, and everyone should at least give it a try, even if they never settle on it.

Agreed. Anyone can DM, though some are certainly better than others. Part of the OP's rage seems to be that DMing is supposed to be reserved for the elite of gamer society. Which is bullshit.

We're actively doing this in one of my groups right now. We've had four different DMs for the last four campaigns, two of whom had never DMed before. But they wanted to try it. One of them I doubt will do it again, he didn't enjoy it very much. But his game was fun, from our side of the screen.

Quote from: David R;333014This is what got Ed's knickers in a twist ?

Jeebus, I miss the brawls between Stormbringer and Pseudoephedrine.

Regards,
David R

This discussion thread sort of reminds me of several hardcore 1E AD&D grognards with whom I've gamed with over the years, who have a really "elitist" mentality about DM'ing.  As far as they're concerned, they think they're the only ones who have the "god given" right to DM 1E AD&D, and that anybody else who doesn't have their background is a dilettante or a completely unworthy amateur.

In practice, several of these particular 1E AD&D grognards are completely horrible as DMs in general.  One particular grognard has absolutely no understanding of how pacing works, where they would spend an entire 5 hour session on the party setting up camp and sleeping for an evening, or three 5 hour sessions on traveling between two nearby towns.  Another grognard would spend 10 or 15 minutes at a time in the middle of a game scrounging through the 1E AD&D books PHB, DMG, UA, Dragon Magazine articles, etc ..., whenever they didn't know what the rule was for doing something.  This happened frequently enough that the players were doing other things like playing video games, watching tv, netsurfing, reading a novel, etc ... for a large portion of the game session.

In the end, these particular grognards' DM elitism was largely a figment of their own imaginations out their own minds and "echo chambers" of other like minded grognards.  They were essentially believing in their own and one another's bullshit, while they were completely oblivious as to why their games were a huge revolving door churn of players and/or they don't understand why their previous players have very little to no interest in playing in their greatest "gift from god" 1E AD&D games.

Quote from: Fifth Element;333026Agreed. Anyone can DM, though some are certainly better than others. Part of the OP's rage seems to be that DMing is supposed to be reserved for the elite of gamer society. Which is bullshit.

This seems to be a very popular "complaint" over the years by hardcore DM elitist types I have met and known in person.  I remember shortly after 2E AD&D was released, some of my "elitist" DM'ing friends who had overinflated opinions of their own DM'ing abilities and prowess, complained that the 2E PHB and DMG completely "dumbed" down DM'ing to the point that any idiot can now DM an AD&D game.  It was as if they thought it was the "end" of their world.

The 4E D&D DMG and DMG2 books would probably give these particular "elitist DM" friends a heart attack if they ever read them.