Quote from: Kyle Aaron;327989People, snacks, setting, system.

I would probably expand snacks to surroundings. I.e. you need to be in a place where you are comfortable and free of distractions (like hunger) to achieve immersion.

Quote from: One Horse Town;327991It can screw up immersion in the setting if the system is constantly in your face. Which is why fancy doo-dads and little gimmicky mechanics get in the way of playing the game.

One might almost say that it's a good idea to choose mechanics that support your preferred gaming agenda, in fact.

Quote from: Thanlis;327995One might almost say that it's a good idea to choose mechanics that support your preferred gaming agenda, in fact.

System doesn't matter - setting does. Try reading.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;327989If you make little or no effort and don't really give a shit, then yes, the session will be crap as a game session. As mentioned earlier, if the players are talking about boobs and Mountain Dew - well, that's neither effort nor caring.

This always happens when several players are always drunk or stoned during the game.

Quote from: The Shaman;327975One could run a game set in the era of The Three Musketeers using AD&D plus the setting book A Mighty Fortress, but the fencing rules in Flashing Blades do a much better job of capturing the feel of swashbuckling swordplay.

So those "one or two mechanics" can actually make a big diffence in bringing the setting to life.

I remember I was talking once to a friend about how much I felt that the system matters. Let's imagine your character is surprised by a guy who points at you with a crossbow. In AD&D (when this conversation took place there was no D&D3 yet), unless my character had a very low level, I'd laugh at the crossbow guy and rush to him in order to kick his ass. In RuneQuest, I'd shout something like 'I surrender! Please, don't hurt me!'

So yes, a really big difference.

Regarding your example, I couldn't play in a swashbukling game using AD&D and take it seriously. I'd laugh my ass all the time at the silliness. Flashing Blades, or Capitán Alatriste, are the way to go.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;327989Yes.

• People
• Snacks
• Setting
• System

in that order.

For me it's:

• People and a good place
• System and setting (can't decide which one is more important, as they complement each other)
• Food and booze

I am having a hard time reconciling this:

Quote from: One Horse Town;327991It can screw up immersion in the setting if the system is constantly in your face. Which is why fancy doo-dads and little gimmicky mechanics get in the way of playing the game.

With this:

Quote from: One Horse Town;327998System doesn't matter - setting does.

You may need to explain yourself more.

Quote from: Soylent Green;327980Yes, a good GM and good players trumps everything. But that isn't a very useful direction for the conversation unless it is followed by " and this is how you can become a good GM and a good player" as it leave us average to mediocre roleplayers out in the cold.

It's not that easy to give advice about how to become a good player or a good GM, but I think there are two golden rules:

• Don't be an asshole
• Common sense

What jadrax said.

"System can't help, it can only get in the way?"

Quote from: Thanlis;328009What jadrax said.

"System can't help, it can only get in the way?"

Not in all cases. System can help a lot. But I admit that's a question of taste, some people feel that way, such people usually like systems like BRP and Unisystem, which they feel "get out of the way".

Some people, like me, prefer systems that support setting.

Quote from: One Horse Town;327943Sure, one or two mechanics emulating the setting and genre you are attempting can aid immersion, but ultimately, it's the setting as laid out by the GM/DM that is the primary source of immersion.

Well it's not really that setting matters, but rather the ability of the GM. So it should be GM matters. Of course a lot depends on how players react to this sort of thing. Are they mostly on the same page. So, it's people who you game with matters.

Regards,
David R

Setting and system, just like good company and basic listening skills, are tools that provide entertainment at the game table. They help each other and combine to provide a greater game experience for everyone involved. This is one of those things where the whole ends up superior to the sum of its parts, in that regard.

Moreover. I believe the degree of immersion/believability in the game mostly depends on the people gathered around the game table, their personal goals regarding their participation in the game, and their relative synergies. If you don't have the right type of people (i.e. proactive, constructive, cooperative people who are interested in immersion and helping others enjoy the game as they do), everything else will fail.

Or, in other words: People, Snacks, Setting and System. The Cheetoist way for you.

Quote from: One Horse Town;327991It can screw up immersion in the setting if the system is constantly in your face. Which is why fancy doo-dads and little gimmicky mechanics get in the way of playing the game.

Ok, this is obviously a rant, but can you give an example of gimmicky mechanics that screw up the setting, so I know how much I agree?

Quote from: Monster Manuel;328026Ok, this is obviously a rant, but can you give an example of gimmicky mechanics that screw up the setting, so I know how much I agree?

How about the jacked up laws of magic Margret Wies wrote for the 1e Dragon Lance book?

Quote from: Cranewings;328027How about the jacked up laws of magic Margret Wies wrote for the 1e Dragon Lance book?

Dragonlance sucked. Badly. A good example of what you shouldn't do.


And yet, same person went on to inspire Ravenloft.... go figure.