It's a silly question, really, since anyone could name any game mechanic and be told, "but that's too trivial to be a true innovation."

Point-buy for attributes/skills rather than random roll, dis/advantages for characters, lifepath character generation, hero points, classless character generation, wound levels rather than hit points, hit locations, an overlay system for combat, descriptors rather than numbers for character sheets, etc etc etc.

We could name any of those, and someone would say, "big deal" or "but three years before that was published I was doing that as a house rule in my own game."

It's a question designed to start arguments rather than provoke discussion.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;316863It's a question designed to start arguments rather than provoke discussion.

That's why, since one the criteria of response is something "we could all agree on", I answered "diversity".

What the last decades brought is a plethora of new games and mechanics. Whether these are novelties, true innovations, or just variations of the sames things over and over, is up for grabs. We can agree that we have more variety, though.

Quote from: Benoist;316864That's why, since one the criteria of response is something "we could all agree on", I answered "diversity".

What the last decades brought is a plethora of new games and mechanics. Whether these are novelties, true innovations, or just variations of the sames things over and over, is up for grabs. We can agree that we have more variety, though.

And let me add that this is something VERY positive. Isn't it?

True innovations?  IMO;

 1) Unified game mechanics.

 2)  Any mechanic that gives you an edge or a hinderance in certain situations ( aka a 'merit' 'flaw' system )

 3)  Hero Point/Fate Point-like mechanic.

 4)  Specificaly, Barbarians of Lumuria career system.  It's a class based and a skill bases system rolled into one.

 5)  Dice pool systems.  I personally don't care for them, but they do work well for determining how well you succeed at something.

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I agree with Benoist, the diversity of games that are around at the moment is a wonderful thing. I’m somewhat Catholic in my tastes, and enjoy a lot of the different things that are going on right now, from the innovations of the Indie rpg community right through to the back to basics approach of the OSR. However, I don’t think this applies just to rpgs - as gamers we’re living in something of a golden age, with great stuff happening in the world of computer games, tabletop miniatures and board games too. I can’t remember a time quite so productive and diverse across the breadth of the gaming hobby since the eighties.

True Innovations?

The most recent is "winning the die roll doesn't mean succeeding, it means getting to decide who succeeds" and "He who nerfs himself more and wins gets to say more about the success or failure... but the loser also gets to say some things.... from Houses of the Blooded, by John Wick.

Need to nerf yourself with your traits to have freedom of action - Mouse Guard, by Luke Crane

Quote from: Joethelawyer;316860Yeah I know. I'm kind of a one trick pony, just D&D and D&D derivative games.  What's TFT?

Metagaming's 1981 The Fantasy Trip

Comprised of 3 core rules modules:
Melee (boardgame)
Wizard (boardgame)
In the Labyrinth (Character Rules)

and 2 expansion rulebooks:
Advanced Melee
Advanced Wizard

and a large scale combat pocket microgame:
Lords of Underearth

and a later revision of Wizard and Melee with a subset of ITL:
Dragons of Underearth

Written by Steve Jackson (of Metagaming, later SJG).

Very similar in some ways to GURPS; GURPS was a rework and improvement upon the same base concepts.

I think there´s some real innovation AND progress in regards to wargame design and boardgame design.

Since the initial question was game design not specifically RPG design I think CCGs were the single biggest game design inovation since roleplaying. They totally changed the whole hobby dynamic, everything changed.

Improvements in technology and the availability of computers also meant MUDs could become MMOs. This is not a design improvement per se but the exisitance of MMOs has had a profound effect on the hobby and changed the pnp games (witness 4E) and the experience new players expect from it.

As for future ... I still think a CCG/RPG hybrid has legs anthough the exact mechanics of it elude me. I think that improved communications and increased computer powers will lead to the virtualisation of the tabletop and the creation of true online RPGs with small groups and human DMs maybe linked into perpetual worlds. I think this is a natural position for DnD and the RPGN to move towards. When you have precise, flexible DM intevention, interactive chat with all players and a flexible rule kit that allows for non standard actions most of our reservations fall away. I expect this to be the case in the next 10-20 years.

I figured that there would be perhaps one or two people who don't like unified mechanics; but this is ridiculous. I'm just not seeing how making a system needlessly obtuse is a good thing. Some things are always special cases, of course, but having a single thread running throughout the system is logical, makes learning the game easier, and makes it easier to balance. Really, what's the benefit to having you roll 1d20 to hit with your sword but 1d100 to fix it?

Quote from: Claudius;316883And let me add that this is something VERY positive. Isn't it?

It is.

A lot of interesting stuff has come out of the Forge (cue flaming me to tiny bits). In particular, I've gotten a lot of use, across multiple systems, from relationship maps and kickers.

Putting events on wandering monster charts in addition to creatures was a pretty good idea.

The d30 is clearly 50% more innovative than a d20.

Quote from: jrients;316935The d30 is clearly 50% more innovative than a d20.

LOL. This is sig worthy! I wish I would use that d30 more.

Ummm.... Amber Diceless seems pretty innovative. Also the Random CharGen+Point Buy system of TMNT.

The Layout and Graphic Design of RPG books. I figure it was brought about by D&D 3e, I don't remember a great, usability tested layout before that.

Story focused gameplay. Up until the mid to late eighties it was mostly about simulating a world. I think Toon might have been the first game to say 'story first, rules last.'

Quote from: RPGPundit;316740is there anything can all agree is better about game design today compared to game design in the late 70s?

1. Flaws/Disadvantages must be used in play to generate additional points/actions for the player. The method pioneered  by Champions was that you got points for taking disads at chargen. This let many players build up their characters but never roleplayed their disads. By forcing players to use their disads during play to gain a benefit, the disad is truly becomes a hinderance.

2. Damage need not reduce hit points/wounds but affect other aspects of the character. Truth & Justice models superheroes perfectly by allowing the damage to take out an aspect other than hits points. Fits how Spidey has such a terrible social life.

@JTL - Check out http://www.darkcitygames.com to see a semi-retro-clone of Melee/Wizard (TFT). The rules are 6 pages and free.