Quote from: Joethelawyer;316816I think the most innovative thing to affect the industry was the OGL, in terms of something that changed the way the industry operated.

I agree.

In terms of the hobby, rather than the industry, I'd point to the Internet and the ease of self-publishing (via web site, blog, PDF, Lulu, forums, etc) as huge enabling factors.

Quote from: Philotomy Jurament;316820I agree.

In terms of the hobby, rather than the industry, I'd point to the Internet and the ease of self-publishing (via web site, blog, PDF, Lulu, forums, etc) as huge enabling factors.

I agree with that as well.

What an agreeable bunch of folks, huh?

Quote from: Joethelawyer;316821What an agreeable bunch of folks, huh?

Bah. OSR Clique, the lot of us.

What would be amusing is if the OGL continues on living and thriving for decades, even after 7E or 8E D&D is released.

OGL becoming the tabletop PnP rpg world's verison of the "Energizer Bunny".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energizer_bunny

Here's something that might be innovative, at least to one side of the equation, the player side. Break down every single component of every ability/skill/feat/etc of every class in the PHB, and every prestige class. Put them all in a big table/grid, with a column next to it for cost, and another for prerequisites needed.  You no longer have a class based game, you just add new components to the grid.  No longer a need for splat books, or other expansions as we know them. Simply new items added to the menu of character options.  

This would probably only work well with a mature group of players, and not one that was into min/max'ing or trying to break the system down so they "win the game".

I would also advise that any options that a player wants to add to his character would have to make sense within the context of the game, and their acquisition would have to be role-played out in some cases, like having to find a teacher to learn from.

Note that the cost wouldn't have to be in XP, as in the CR based XP system goes away entirely.  It could be anything the group chooses as a way to reward and recognize advancement

Another idea in terms of magic is to have more than one magic system a character can choose to learn from upon advancing.  For example Vancian, available alongside a ritual based system not requiring spell slots, extra-planar pact based systems, a system based on the sacrifice of lives, a system based on the intermingling of magic and technology, a system based on music, a system based entirely in devices, a system based on the intermingling and combination of runes, a system based in some sort of take on the purity of the platonic forms, etc.  

Of course, whiners about class balance need not apply to be players in such a system.  Only those with imagination and a desire to have fun.

I think either of those systemic adaptations would be mildly innovative for D&D.

Truly innovative? I'm not sure we've had any. Many mechanics are very nice and elegant, and streamlined, but many are not. (Cold Steel Reign, Fireborn, Alpha and Omega.)

I really wish someone could do something marvelously new, and still be somethng we considered an RPG.

Quote from: Joethelawyer;316825Here's something that might be innovative, at least to one side of the equation, the player side. Break down every single component of every ability/skill/feat/etc of every class in the PHB, and every prestige class. Put them all in a big table/grid, with a column next to it for cost, and another for prerequisites needed.  You no longer have a class based game, you just d new components to the grid.  No longer a need for splat books, or other expansions s we know them. Simply new items added to the menu of character options.

Are you talking about a point buy system, such as in Mutants and Masterminds?  Or a system like GURPS?

Quote from: Joethelawyer;316825This would probably only work well with a mature group of players, and not one that was into min/max'ing or trying to break the system down so they "win the game".

For such a game system to be balanced, it would have to be designed that way from the very beginning.  Otherwise the munchkin powergamers will completely break the system the very first second.

Quote from: ggroy;316828Are you talking about a point buy system, such as in Mutants and Masterminds?  Or a system like GURPS?

For such a game system to be balanced, it would have to be designed that way from the very beginning.  Otherwise the munchkin powergamers will completely break the system the very first second.

I dunno.  I've only played and seen D&D, except for a brief excursion into the Rolemaster Lord of the Rings game in the mid-80's.  If those games ave such a design, then I guess I'm not being too innovative here huh?    I do remember the second edition D&D DMG had something like that in it as an option though, right?  Some sort of XP cost to build your own guy?

The game would definitely not work for the powergamer crowd.

Quote from: Joethelawyer;316830The game would definitely not work for the powergamer crowd.

As an example, the munchkins will try to get plate mail armor proficiency and twin strike weapon ability for their melee fighting type character.  On top of that, they may even try to get 'rage points' similar to that of a barbarian.

Something like this gives the munchkin's character already an AC of 3 (or AC of 17 in 3E/4E) and two weapon strikes each round.

To top it off, a munchkin will choose their race to be something powerful like a minotaur.

Career paths (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay)

Archetypes (Talislanta)

Troupe play (Ars Magica)

Building the game around a player-created covenant/location (Ars Magica)

Items increasing in power as conditions are met (Earthdawn)

Taglines of dialog (Dying Earth)

Wildcards and extras (Savage Worlds)

Quote from: Joethelawyer;316830I dunno.  I've only played and seen D&D, except for a brief excursion into the Rolemaster Lord of the Rings game in the mid-80's.  If those games ave such a design, then I guess I'm not being too innovative here huh?    I do remember the second edition D&D DMG had something like that in it as an option though, right?  Some sort of XP cost to build your own guy?

The problem with point buy classless character systems, is that less experienced players tend to get lost easily in all the options and details.

Quote from: The Worid;316771Another vote for unified mechanics. Is there anyone who really thinks that this isn't an improvement?

Not a big fan of the one mechanic approach.  Some things are better represented by another mechanic.  I prefer authors not be afraid to use a second or third mechanic for certain things.

I'm not even sure how innovative the unified mechanic approach is.  IIRC TFT had only one mechanic, roll nD6 get under to succeed. n normally being 3 unless the task was very easy or very hard.

Quote from: Joethelawyer;316830I dunno.  I've only played and seen D&D, except for a brief excursion into the Rolemaster Lord of the Rings game in the mid-80's.  If those games ave such a design, then I guess I'm not being too innovative here huh?    I do remember the second edition D&D DMG had something like that in it as an option though, right?  Some sort of XP cost to build your own guy?

The game would definitely not work for the powergamer crowd.

Dude, you got to get out more.  Point buy character building and advancement, TFT had that.  No classes per se, you got your xp and bought accordingly.  It worked / works very well.

Quote from: Xanther;316852Dude, you got to get out more.  Point buy character building and advancement, TFT had that.  No classes per se, you got your xp and bought accordingly.  It worked / works very well.

Yeah I know. I'm kind of a one trick pony, just D&D and D&D derivative games.  What's TFT?