Quote from: JimLotFP;309283Lars was right.

Lars is a fucking tool, the music industry needs to step into the 21st century and embrace new technologies and new options for profit rather than try to destroy them. Unfortunately it looks like WOTC has decided to follow in the footsteps of both the RIAA and MPAA and try to destroy its online market rather than profit from it.

All IP needs to be paid for in order to stay in business.

The successful models use low pricing, not threat of retribution, to encourage honesty. And, no matter the pricepoint, some shitforbrains will pirate it.

WotC priced the PDF's too high. Essentially, the PDF's are currently a byproduct of their printing contracts; selling them is gravy on top of the book sales (which are doing quite well); the question becomes, will book sales spike, drop, or be unaffected by the lack of PDFs.

What it means for me is no more buying backups of my BECMI/GAZ books.

Quote from: The Game Guy;309264They should be, they just won 1.92 Million in fines in a retrial of a women accused of downloading music.   She was found guilty and fined 222,000 but the judge decided to give her a retrail because of a mistake.

She didnt fair well the second time:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/finance/20090618/US.TEC.Music.Downloading/

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I read that in the news this morning.  She and/or her legal team seemed pretty dumb in this case.  They let her make up some excuse that no one bought and didn't even use their expert witness to rebut the prosecution.  From the article I read the RIAA is still offering to let her pay the original 3-5k dollar fine to settle things.

I've never looked into how court judgments are handled in bankruptcy so I don't know how easy it will be to limit what they can garnish etc.

Quote from: Seanchai;309189So if you're unemployed or in college, you can commit crimes without fear of reprisal?

Seanchai

this is a civil offence, not a criminal one.

so it is a waste of time. especially when a student is the last person to afford stupid amounts of fines.

it's a car crash all round.

Quote from: The Game Guy;309264They should be, they just won 1.92 Million in fines in a retrial of a women accused of downloading music.   She was found guilty and fined 222,000 but the judge decided to give her a retrail because of a mistake.

She didnt fair well the second time:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/finance/20090618/US.TEC.Music.Downloading/

and does anyone think that money is nothing more than a token judgement? There is no way she's going to fork out over a million bucks (mind you this is America).

I bet there's way more to this case than meets the eye.

as for lars ulrich; he hasn't done too badly despite those evil crooks trying to 'steal' his internets.

Quote from: Strangelove;309359

I read that in the news this morning.  She and/or her legal team seemed pretty dumb in this case.  They let her make up some excuse that no one bought and didn't even use their expert witness to rebut the prosecution.  From the article I read the RIAA is still offering to let her pay the original 3-5k dollar fine to settle things.

I've never looked into how court judgments are handled in bankruptcy so I don't know how easy it will be to limit what they can garnish etc.

Fascinating how the industry determines that the 'theft' of music this terrible woman perpetrated is worth such a ludicrous sum of money (money you can bet the artists won't receive, as is normal practise for this vampiric organisation).

why don't wotc just drop the 3-book act and make their game more affordable and accesible. it's more expensive than a video game and there's nowhere it needs to be.

Quote from: jrients;309200I am absolutelty certain that's exactly the point Pundit was trying to make and any other interpretation is clearly incorrect.

"God this is all just so slimy and pathetic all-around. WoTC going after unemployed college students."

What do you draw from that statement other than it's slimy and pathetic to go after unemployed college students?

Seanchai

Quote from: GRIM;309320It's a sad state of affairs when Palladium has a more enlightened policy than you do.

Why, yes it is. Even Crazy Kevin is more forward thinking than your company. You know. That guy who still uses rubber cement to put together his books. :wizard:

In the US, at least, they could press criminal charges and actually send a real message of real threat.

But the requirement in criminal is a higher bar than in civil. Generally:
Criminal: unanimous, beyond a reasonable doubt, typically 12 person juries. Only defense can request a bench trial. Case must be established as credible pre-trial
Civil: supermajority (10/12 in alaska, as low as 6/7 in some places), Preponderance of the evidence (more likely than not). Either side can ask for bench trial. Defense can request, pre-trial, for an order to show cause, but that may or may not be entertained by the judge, and can often be manipulated by the plaintiff.

Quote from: Seanchai;309381"God this is all just so slimy and pathetic all-around. WoTC going after unemployed college students."

What do you draw from that statement other than it's slimy and pathetic to go after unemployed college students?

Seanchai

How can it be acceptable to chase people who can't afford to pay down for money they don't have? Where's the logic in that? If they are 'stealing' stuff through filesharing, then as they haven't any money they weren't going to be buying it in the first place either!

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;309412How can it be acceptable to chase people who can't afford to pay down for money they don't have? Where's the logic in that? If they are 'stealing' stuff through filesharing, then as they haven't any money they weren't going to be buying it in the first place either!

Because their point is not to recoup perceived losses through "theft". They are using the people least able to mount a legal defense (and therefore the cheapest to make examples of), and the most likely to be intimidated, to threaten and intimidate everyone else into either ceasing their file-sharing activities or hesitating to start them. They're basically rattling their sabers... firing shots off our bows. To them, that these young folks are suffering for it doesn't concern them because the young folks were violating copyright, and so deserve to suffer. Whether you agree with that or not is up to ya'all.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;309412How can it be acceptable to chase people who can't afford to pay down for money they don't have? Where's the logic in that? If they are 'stealing' stuff through filesharing, then as they haven't any money they weren't going to be buying it in the first place either!

1) they can't afford a decent lawyer
2) they are easily found
3) they are in the typical age range for PDF pirates
4) getting a judgement means being able to pursue action to attach any significant funds these blokes may ever get, provided that these idiots either settle or get convicted. Right after child support and student loans.
5) Their parents may be liable for the debt as well; age of financial independence varies from state to state.

Pulling the PDf's and initiating the lawsuits happened pretty much on the same day.

The PHB II PDF's contained micro or concealed watermarks that clearly identified the original purchasers of one of the PHB's that were posted on Scribd for general download, of all places...

Scribd of course pulled the PDF's when notified, however, I don't believe they were named in the lawsuits. There's laws in place that still protect ISP's and online publishers if one of their subscribers actually posts illegal content online so long as they take it offline immediately, when they are notified. Still there were 3,000+ or so downloads of PHB II in the days immediately after it was released. From what I understand, the poster on Scribd was not the original PDF buyer.

WOTC is mediating in part because one of the defendants started a firestorm over on Enworld. It's some of the most entertaining online reading I've experienced in the last few years.

It's a business mess created by business people. I'm not in any of those camps anymore, and have long since went off to play different games although I'd still run a 0D&D or Eberron game if opportunity allowed. You can't help but notice such a train wreck as it is happening though. It's noisy, and alot of innocent people are getting hurt.

Quote from: Sigmund;309419Because their point is not to recoup perceived losses through "theft". They are using the people least able to mount a legal defense (and therefore the cheapest to make examples of), and the most likely to be intimidated, to threaten and intimidate everyone else into either ceasing their file-sharing activities or hesitating to start them. They're basically rattling their sabers... firing shots off our bows. To them, that these young folks are suffering for it doesn't concern them because the young folks were violating copyright, and so deserve to suffer. Whether you agree with that or not is up to ya'all.

I guess two wrongs really do make a right, in the eyes of capitalism and the media industries.