What's more important to you?

Setting, or rules?

What I mean by that:

If a setting is released for an existing rules set, which is more important?  Bending the rules to fit the setting, or wedging the setting into the rules?

I am a setting over rules guy, myself.

I always thought the rules changes made to Ravenloft (any edition) weren't quite enough, until I reached the point that I decided I had no interest in ever playing it in D&D, because it felt like horror hack'n'slash, but the setting fluff didn't seem to back that up.

If Eden had tried to wedge Buffy into WitchCraft, it frankly wouldn't have worked...look at vampires and werewolves for starters...thankfully, they sacrificed compatibility for playability.

Deadlands carried over a handful of setting rules with it into Deadlands Reloaded to keep the flavor.  Necessary Evil has a single Arcane Background that doesn't vibe with any other setting, but has internal logic.

So...what's more important for you?  Having the rules bend to match the setting, or having the setting bend to match the rules?

Tommy

Rules.  I have the whole of the Internet, and everyone on it, to pick and choose and mashup for setting material.  Rulesets, not so much.

I want great rules that deliver something. The setting better be that something, but if it isn't, I can handle that part.

Rules. As others have said, I have no problem coming up with setting material on my own.

Another vote for rules.

I have history, art, science and literature as inspiration for the rest.

I think he meant how should the setting match the rules, which one should take precedence, as in, a specific setting. For me, it would be the setting. After all, if you buy a specific book about some specific universe, it's because you want to play that. I mean, if in your ruleset says no character can fly, and you want to play DC heroes... well, dude, change the rules, don't make Superman take the tube. Was that the question?

If the question is: when setting meets rules, which should have priority?, then I say setting. This is certainly part of what's kept me from looking more closely at D&D settings like Dark Sun or Eberron. Appealing at first blush, they nevertheless adhere to D&Disms like the standard demihuman races. Not that Glorantha and Harn don't do the same thing to some degree, but e.g. the 2e historical books seem to take a much more forceful approach to customizing the rules to match the setting.

Ah meant whah 'e sed.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;305266If the question is: when setting meets rules, which should have priority?, then I say setting. This is certainly part of what's kept me from looking more closely at D&D settings like Dark Sun or Eberron. Appealing at first blush, they nevertheless adhere to D&Disms like the standard demihuman races. Not that Glorantha and Harn don't do the same thing to some degree, but e.g. the 2e historical books seem to take a much more forceful approach to customizing the rules to match the setting.

If that's what we're talking about I'll second that. Got the same problem with Eberron (not as familiar with Dark Sun). But... all listed examples so far have been content... which is only one very specific part of the system, and specifically the part where it most overlaps with the setting. If that makes any sense at all. What about the rest?

Vreeg's #1 rule of setting design.

"Make sure the system you choose matches the game/setting you want to play, or eventually the game will match the rules"

The setting is the most important thing, as this should determine the type of rules you use.  Too often, I see people who are adherents to one ruleset or another trying to create a setting (I post a lot of the Campaign Builders Guild) that is a poor match for the type of game they are trying to set up.

Vreeg's Corrollary to rule #1 of setting design.

"Any prepackaged ruleset, no matter how diverse or open, will be less effective at creating the specific feel a worldbuilder is looking for than a homebrewed system"

I don't know whether to disagree with the OP or agree.

Frankly, I don't find "published setting" all that important. To me, the setting is a source of campaign ideas*. When it tries to be more than that, it runs the risk of ceasing to be a functional RPG product and becoming off-kilter fiction by wannabe novelists.

To me, the most import aspect of setting is the way it plays at the table, which is very much a function of the rules. But you have to have the right rules. So, in a way that sounds like I agree with the OP, with the caveat that I have no faith to the setting or adversity to "bending the setting". If the setting as published doesn't fit the setting you or your group wants to play, then bend the hell out of it!

* - Caveat - to be fair, I think there is one other major function of settings as published: create a basis for shared experience. But you generally get that after years of play and publication, not with a single published setting book or game.

Setting, which is why the Forge Swine are and always will be wrong.

RPGPundit

Quote from: beejazz;305298But... all listed examples so far have been content... which is only one very specific part of the system, and specifically the part where it most overlaps with the setting. If that makes any sense at all. What about the rest?

Good point. I think Dark Sun takes magic in a very idiosyncratic direction, which is the sort of thing I'm definitely in favor of; it's just too bad about the elves and dwarves.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;305241What's more important to you?

Setting, or rules?

What I mean by that:

If a setting is released for an existing rules set, which is more important?  Bending the rules to fit the setting, or wedging the setting into the rules?

...

So...what's more important for you?  Having the rules bend to match the setting, or having the setting bend to match the rules?

Tommy

I consider myself a system over setting guy, but I think it's the rules which must fit the setting, not the other way around.

Quote from: SunBoy;305254I think he meant how should the setting match the rules, which one should take precedence, as in, a specific setting. For me, it would be the setting. After all, if you buy a specific book about some specific universe, it's because you want to play that. I mean, if in your ruleset says no character can fly, and you want to play DC heroes... well, dude, change the rules, don't make Superman take the tube. Was that the question?

Yes, and my apologies if I didn't get that across well..=P  Thanks for the clarification.