This is the term I've just made up for those powers (danger sense and its variants being the worst culprits) that players don't have to activate to use, that are essentially always on, and that are meant to do little more than to frustrate the GM.

If you don't remember the PC has them, you've messed up.
So first, its extra book-keeping for you, rather than the player.

Second, if you do remember them, they're often so vague that a player will later end up arguing with you about whether or not he shouldn't have had his power "warn" him about something when you didn't do so.

Does anyone else hate this kind of shit?

RPGPundit

Pundit,
  Yes, I whole heartedly agree. Danger Sense is the worst idea for a power, ever. I have been GM'ing since 1981, and I still haven't found a "good" way to manage this. The only two ways are to do it "by the book" or screw it up. But even by the book handling never seems really sufficient...

I don't see the problem. If the character has "spider-sense", then the GM should remember that the player has such a power. What's so hard about that? Besides, there are times when such a power can backfire. What happens when you're surrounded by danger, or are in a "psychic dead" zone? Or maybe the character with such an ability could attract an inordinate amount of trouble from psychic entities.

When the danger sense goes off, just send the player a little note that says, "danger" (from above/behind you/etc). It might get the other players a little bit riled up, but that comes with the territory.

If 'danger sense' is a crappy 'passive aggressive' power, then perception is even worse! I say we eliminate all passive aggressive powers, simply state what our characters see, and have the GM tell us when we're wrong!

The power isn't crappy so much as the execution.  One easy way of handling it is to let the player remind the GM that the power is in play. Obviously mechanics have to support that somehow (like, I dunno, having surprise checks that the power lets the player ignore or something).

But I do think chaosvoyager has the right of it. Danger Sense is not really any more dickish than having a high spot or listen check in D&D... and a GM who has a problem with that is probably the one being the dick...

Dunno about passive-aggressive, but two things I find intensely problematic are mind control and precognition.

Rogues in 3e are never flat footed, nor can they be flanked. Sounds a lot like spider sense to me. There are easy ways to handle it.

As for precognition, if the power states it only works a part of the time, it isn't a problem.

This reminds me of the time I hit one of the PC's with poisonous gas only to be reminded that he had Immunity: suffocation, and so didn't need to breath.

That was one short combat.

I love Danger Sense. It allows me to put insta death on the table. Without it snipers, hyperdrive malfunctions, and giant sharks are either unplayably deadly or implausably nerfed.
 
I love danger sense so much, I house rule it out as a single virtue and infuse it into each and every skill so that danger sense only works for the things your character is smart about.
 
I narrate, I roll a bucket of damage dice and then the players can come up with ways that their characters should have known. If they have a good story (and the useless non-combat skills to back it up) their new version is what actualy happened and the old version is the precognative vision that they reacted to.
 
My favorite part is that after they survive the surprise attack they appreciate how imperiled they are!
 
What I can't stand are things like Darkvision. Sure, dwarves seeing in the dark is cool, but torches and darkness are even cooler.

Quote from: Malleus Arianorum;283496I love Danger Sense. It allows me to put insta death on the table. Without it snipers, hyperdrive malfunctions, and giant sharks are either unplayably deadly or implausably nerfed.
 
I love danger sense so much, I house rule it out as a single virtue and infuse it into each and every skill so that danger sense only works for the things your character is smart about.
 
I narrate, I roll a bucket of damage dice and then the players can come up with ways that their characters should have known. If they have a good story (and the useless non-combat skills to back it up) their new version is what actualy happened and the old version is the precognative vision that they reacted to.
 
My favorite part is that after they survive the surprise attack they appreciate how imperiled they are!
 
What I can't stand are things like Darkvision. Sure, dwarves seeing in the dark is cool, but torches and darkness are even cooler.

That is a great way of doing it.

Quote from: Spike;283455The power isn't crappy so much as the execution.  One easy way of handling it is to let the player remind the GM that the power is in play. Obviously mechanics have to support that somehow (like, I dunno, having surprise checks that the power lets the player ignore or something).

But I do think chaosvoyager has the right of it. Danger Sense is not really any more dickish than having a high spot or listen check in D&D... and a GM who has a problem with that is probably the one being the dick...

There are a couple of differences. Your GM can tell you suddenly to "make a spot check", and it really won't automatically mean that an attack is forthcoming.
On the other hand, if you had to do a "danger sense check", then the PLAYER knows right away that he's in danger, even if it failed.

On the other hand, if the danger sense is automatic, then that means the player shouldn't have to remind the GM he has it. But it becomes a constant annoyance for the GM having to remember and take it into account.

And of course, probably worst of all is the one that isn't on at all times, but that depends on the PC activating it, but doesn't require a check. There, the player will inevitably try to claim retroactively that he "would have been" checking for danger along the way, and it becomes a source of discord between players and GM.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Cranewings;283460Rogues in 3e are never flat footed, nor can they be flanked. Sounds a lot like spider sense to me. There are easy ways to handle it.

They can, however, be taken by surprise, or enter into a dangerous area in general without actually knowing they're in danger automatically.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;283527There are a couple of differences. Your GM can tell you suddenly to "make a spot check", and it really won't automatically mean that an attack is forthcoming.
On the other hand, if you had to do a "danger sense check", then the PLAYER knows right away that he's in danger, even if it failed.

Huh, what?

If the GM only has you roll to see if you "spot" something when there's something to spot, then it's exacty like "danger sense" if they have you roll only if there is something to sense.

Of course, in both situations, the GM could have you roll to "spot" or "sense" when nothing is there to "spot" or "sense".

There is a "Danger Sense" Talent in the Third Kingdom, the system I am working on.  It is restricted two ways:
1) It costs energy to use.  There are also two ways of using it: always on (in which case the player has no control over when it functions, draining magical energy with each use) and concentration, in which it becomes much more like a Spot or Listen skill, albeit one with a supernatural bent.
2) It functions best when the threat is immediate and directed specifically at the target character.  Therefore, it would work really well in detecting the assassin creeping up behind the PC, less well in detecting the party of orcs waiting around the corner to ambush the party as a whole, and is much less effective in detecting something like a mechanical trap, poisoned food, etc that has no mind and is not directly aimed at the specific character.  To put it another way, the ability might sense an assassins motive when poisoning the PCs dish, not the actual poison in and of itself.  It is a psychic ability, after all.

Todd

The "spot" check in question does not necessarily imply danger, however. It could be anything.  You might be spotting to notice something useful, or interesting, or a clue. Or pie.

RPGPundit