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Why OD&D?

Started by Nicephorus, September 15, 2008, 12:54:48 PM

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KenHR

#45
September 17, 2008, 04:42:19 PM
Quote from: Engine;248701Okay, so what if you've two characters who both grew up in the woods: they both know how to track, fine, but they both have an 80 percent chance to succeed/both have the same chance to succeed if they've the same wisdom/both succeed? What about individual variation? What about someone who grew up in the woods but didn't learn to track?

I guess it's just odd to me, handwaving or fiating what the character knows how to do, because I cut my teeth on Shadowrun, where "what you know how to do" is something that profoundly effects the differences between you and some other dude.

It's part considering background/situation, part role-playing, part how the player describes what he's doing, part how well the player is able to make his case, etc.

Individual variation can still exist.  Honestly, it's never come up as a problem.  My players have always made distinctive characters in older versions of D&D without needing skill lists, benefits, drawbacks, feats, etc.  Sometimes I like games with lists of those things (I heart RoleMaster, for instance), but for the games I like to run now, they honestly get in the way.

EDIT: Nicephorus said it all way better than I just did.
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


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StormBringer

#46
September 17, 2008, 05:25:49 PM
Quote from: Engine;248701Okay, so what if you've two characters who both grew up in the woods: they both know how to track, fine, but they both have an 80 percent chance to succeed/both have the same chance to succeed if they've the same wisdom/both succeed? What about individual variation? What about someone who grew up in the woods but didn't learn to track?

I guess it's just odd to me, handwaving or fiating what the character knows how to do, because I cut my teeth on Shadowrun, where "what you know how to do" is something that profoundly effects the differences between you and some other dude.
If you haven't read it yet, check out The Old School Primer.  Not written by me, but a good insight into the Olde School mentality.
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

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Nicephorus

#47
September 17, 2008, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: StormBringer;248728If you haven't read it yet, check out The Old School Primer.  Not written by me, but a good insight into the Olde School mentality.

Pretty good but it makes sound like modern games don't use most of the same tactics and techniques, exaggerating the difference.  Across all games (not just D&D variants), I see a mix of what it describes as old and modern, with game and groups varying slightly in the exact mix.  In D20, situational modifiers for good ideas or tactics are common.

StormBringer

#48
September 17, 2008, 09:52:22 PM
Quote from: Nicephorus;248750Pretty good but it makes sound like modern games don't use most of the same tactics and techniques, exaggerating the difference.  Across all games (not just D&D variants), I see a mix of what it describes as old and modern, with game and groups varying slightly in the exact mix.  In D20, situational modifiers for good ideas or tactics are common.
Except the old games didn't have situational modifiers, because there weren't any skill checks to modify.  Whatever plans you came up with generally had to stand or fall on their own.  Some of the techniques may be similar, but the application was very different.
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

\'Let them call me rebel, and welcome, I have no concern for it, but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.\'
- Thomas Paine
\'Everything doesn\'t need

droog

#49
September 17, 2008, 10:11:55 PM
Quote from: StormBringer;248797Except the old games didn't have situational modifiers, because there weren't any skill checks to modify.

"Muddy ground, -2 to hit."

"+4 for attacking from cover and uphill."

It's a bit like rocket science.
The past lives on in your front room
The poor still weak the rich still rule
History lives in the books at home
The books at home

Gang of Four
[/size]

StormBringer

#50
September 18, 2008, 12:30:04 AM
Quote from: droog;248805"Muddy ground, -2 to hit."

"+4 for attacking from cover and uphill."

It's a bit like rocket science.
Well, if the extent of your understanding is modifying 'to hit' rolls, I'm sure it must seem that way.
If you read the above post, you owe me $20 for tutoring fees

\'Let them call me rebel, and welcome, I have no concern for it, but I should suffer the misery of devils, were I to make a whore of my soul.\'
- Thomas Paine
\'Everything doesn\'t need

Pseudoephedrine

#51
September 18, 2008, 12:35:52 AM
Quote from: Engine;248698OD&D doesn't have skills, correct? How does that work?

The smoothest way I ever found was "Roll under an appropriate stat on a d20" with modifiers based on clever or appropriate description or ideas. It made the switch to d20 fairly painless. I prefer a d20 to 3d6 because even if a person has a stat of 18 or 19, they still have a small chance of failing.
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droog

#52
September 18, 2008, 12:54:09 AM
Quote from: StormBringer;248847Well, if the extent of your understanding is modifying 'to hit' rolls, I'm sure it must seem that way.

Don't teach your grandma to suck eggs.
The past lives on in your front room
The poor still weak the rich still rule
History lives in the books at home
The books at home

Gang of Four
[/size]

Nicephorus

#53
September 18, 2008, 06:06:20 AM
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;248851The smoothest way I ever found was "Roll under an appropriate stat on a d20" with modifiers based on clever or appropriate description or ideas. It made the switch to d20 fairly painless.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  Making a skill roll with the difficulty dependent on the task and the details of the character plan and doing the same thing with attribute rolls comes out fairly similar.

Age of Fable

#54
September 18, 2008, 07:29:21 AM Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 07:31:54 AM by Age of Fable
Quote from: Nicephorus;248750Pretty good but it makes sound like modern games don't use most of the same tactics and techniques, exaggerating the difference.  Across all games (not just D&D variants), I see a mix of what it describes as old and modern, with game and groups varying slightly in the exact mix.  In D20, situational modifiers for good ideas or tactics are common.

Yeah - I like what the 'Old-School Primer' is talking about, but I think it might be more accurately described as 'rules-light gaming' rather than 'old-school gaming'.
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GrimJesta

#55
September 18, 2008, 07:40:15 AM
Quote from: StormBringer;248797Except the old games didn't have situational modifiers, because there weren't any skill checks to modify.  Whatever plans you came up with generally had to stand or fall on their own.  Some of the techniques may be similar, but the application was very different.

Player: "I climb the tree."

DM: "Alright. It's raining out and it is dark, but since there's a lot of branches you make the Dex check at -1."

Player: "When I get to the top I want to leap to the other tree."

DM: "Um... yea. -6 to your Dex check. That's a far leap."

Situational checks have been a part of gaming for a long time.

-=Grim=-
Quote from: Drohem;290472...there\'s always going to be someone to spew a geyser of frothy sand from their engorged vagina.  
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KenHR

#56
September 18, 2008, 07:43:05 AM Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 07:45:13 AM by KenHR
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;248851The smoothest way I ever found was "Roll under an appropriate stat on a d20" with modifiers based on clever or appropriate description or ideas. It made the switch to d20 fairly painless. I prefer a d20 to 3d6 because even if a person has a stat of 18 or 19, they still have a small chance of failing.

I like rolling varying d6s based on difficulty:

1d6 Simple
2d6 Easy
3d6 Medium
4d6 Hard
5d6 V Hard
6d6 Extremely Hard
etc.

I like it better than just a straight d20.

Then again, I also like rolling 3d6 in order for character generation, too, so take that as you will.
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
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droog

#57
September 18, 2008, 08:15:54 AM
Quote from: GrimJesta;248899Situational checks have been a part of gaming for a long time.

But apparently not in Ye Olde Schoole.
The past lives on in your front room
The poor still weak the rich still rule
History lives in the books at home
The books at home

Gang of Four
[/size]

flyingmice

#58
September 18, 2008, 08:22:42 AM
Quote from: GrimJesta;248899Player: "I climb the tree."

DM: "Alright. It's raining out and it is dark, but since there's a lot of branches you make the Dex check at -1."

Player: "When I get to the top I want to leap to the other tree."

DM: "Um... yea. -6 to your Dex check. That's a far leap."

Situational checks have been a part of gaming for a long time.

-=Grim=-

That's exactly how I ran stuff for 20 years.

Well, some skills came in with 2E, but they didn't cover all that much.

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wulfgar

#59
September 18, 2008, 08:44:43 AM
Another out of character reason for going with OD&D:

The people who play it, or at least those of them who are active online, are very nice, approachable, and enthusiastic.  While they have opinions about what they like and don't like in their games, since I got put onto the online OD&D "scene" I've yet to encounter the kind of clickishness, flaming, and edition wars that I've seen with fans of every other edition from AD&D up to 4e.  In short, the OD&D fans I've met online have all been mellow, fun, dudes.
 
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