Quote from: Kyle Aaron;242625Of course that slave thingo is a game. Whether it's a fun game we don't know, and I doubt it. But if a game which isn't fun isn't a game, then we have to exclude quite a few campaigns I've played, and more than one I've run! Which would be silly.

I hereby extend an invitation to play Steal Away Jordan to you, Kyle Aaron. I'd extend one to Jackalope, but he lives in that mystical land of freedom and opportunity we call Amerika.

To consider, or otherwise have to, would imply that the participants (and by extension the writer) are not 100% convinced of the ethics surrounding slavery.

Do you want to associate or game with such people?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;242632To consider, or otherwise have to, would imply that the participants (and by extension the writer) are not 100% convinced of the ethics surrounding slavery.

Do you want to associate or game with such people?

Now that's just a dumb political question, and shows you know nothing about the game. Again, I don't have to justify myself to whippersnappers.

What are you hoping to achieve with this question? Do you think I don't know what I'm doing? Do you think you're going to change my mind somehow?

Quote from: NotYourMonkey;242256Well, how do you define a swinish game?  What is a swinish game?  Why?

It's a game the Pundit doesn't likefor whatever stupid reasons he may have at he moment. Any other explanation tends to be false.

Jackalope: "Game" does not have to be fun:

Quote from: WikipediaKey components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interactivity. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational or psychological role.

So "fun" is no necessary component of game, as game can be used in education and you know, education games aren't usually the most fun...

Quote from: Fritzs;242637So "fun" is no necessary component of game, as game can be used in education and you know, education games aren't usually the most fun...

While that may be true, it really isn't the point. What is the point is what you find enjoyable.

I would rather watch Bergman's Persona for the twelfth time than bother to see The Clone Wars for the first. I would rather read Bukowski's cynical downvibe than any number of fat fantasy books.

Even that, however, is beside the point that Beloved sold hugely and made Toni Morrison a household name. It seems that people do enjoy the types of narratives that inform SAJ.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;242632To consider, or otherwise have to, would imply that the participants (and by extension the writer) are not 100% convinced of the ethics surrounding slavery.

Do you want to associate or game with such people?

Having read the game I can tell you you're 100% wrong ....hmm it just occured to me that using your argument any treatment of this subject matter in any medium would be suspect...whatever. If anything in most of these types of games the designers come of as a bit earnest which I suppose isn't really a bad thing considering the subject matter. I'm just waiting for a game designer to do a Spike Lee polemic....  

Regards,
David R

When I was in elementary school, the teacher would give us homework and call it a game.  I would say "No, this is homework." and the teacher would say "No, no, it's a game.  It'll be fun.  Really."

Yeah, didn't fool me then, doesn't fool me now.

But yeah, okay, technically games don't have to be fun.  Which is basically cedeing the point that Steal Away Jordan is not a fun game.  If you take the game seriously, it's not going to be fun, it's going to be depressing and sad.  If you take the piss out of the game, and have fun while playing it, you're going to be an ass.

So it's a game in some strictly technical sense, but it's not a game in the sense that D&D, Traveler, GURPS, Hero System, Villains & Vigilantes, Toon, Call of Cthulhu, Justifiers, Werewolf, or hell, even Breaking The Ice is a game.

Seriously, if you're having a party, and you can whip out a game about exploring the socio-politicial ramifications of America's history of slavery and suggest everyone play, and that isn't instant party death, then you are associating with the most humorless, self-flagellating bunch of liberal douchebags imaginable.

In fact, you are almost certainly swine.  You would certainly fit in with the Forge Swine, who seem to enjoy getting together and wallowing in their own self-righteous sense of superiority, and are amongst the most obnoxious group of humorless, self-flagellating liberal douchebags I've ever met.

Quote from: droog;242633Now that's just a dumb political question, and shows you know nothing about the game. Again, I don't have to justify myself to whippersnappers.

What are you hoping to achieve with this question? Do you think I don't know what I'm doing? Do you think you're going to change my mind somehow?

Why would I want to know anything about the game? The purpose of it seems to be, at best, an exploration of slavery. Why do I need to do this, I know slavery is bad. It is wrong, immoral and something that should be relegated to history. I don't need to 'consider' slavery or Stealing Away Jordan to know this. Therefore I don't see the point of the game at all, unless you are so stupid you actually don't yet know whether slavery is good or bad. If you are that stupid, please remove yourself from my presence.

Quote from: David R;242640Having read the game I can tell you you're 100% wrong ....hmm it just occured to me that using your argument any treatment of this subject matter in any medium would be suspect...whatever. If anything in most of these types of games the designers come of as a bit earnest which I suppose isn't really a bad thing considering the subject matter. I'm just waiting for a game designer to do a Spike Lee polemic....  

Regards,
David R

So it isn't about slavery?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;242645So it isn't about slavery?

Yes it is, but this "would imply that the participants (and by extension the writer) are not 100% convinced of the ethics surrounding slavery." is where you are 100% wrong.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Jackalope;242642But yeah, okay, technically games don't have to be fun.  

100% don't agree. I and everyone I have ever known do not want to play such games. If it's not fun, i'm not interested.

Quote from: Jackalope;242642the most obnoxious group of humorless, self-flagellating liberal douchebags I've ever met.

Lips...don't unpurse...

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;242644If you are that stupid, please remove yourself from my presence.

Here I am, in yer face.

Shucks, Bob, slavery sure is bad! Better not talk about it. How 'bout them Steelers?

Quote from: JackalopeBut yeah, okay, technically games don't have to be fun.

So, then it is not swinery to call unfunny game "game"... my whole point.

Quote from: JackalopeIn fact, you are almost certainly swine. You would certainly fit in with the Forge Swine, who seem to enjoy getting together and wallowing in their own self-righteous sense of superiority, and are amongst the most obnoxious group of humorless, self-flagellating liberal douchebags I've ever met.

I don't want to play that game, I usually want my game to enjoyable, which does not necessary mean fun at any cost. I think I am not completely humorless and I do not count myself among liberals... but, well several peole called me nihilist, which I found to be pretty fiting my personality and believs... so does nihilist=liberal...? And one more question, how do you know... Koltar style mind probing...?