"In lieu of actual discussion I will instead make absurd accusations, which will seem so much more adult because I swear when I make them!"

It's funny to watch you slide from semi-reasonable teenager to mindless raving idiot in the space of three posts Jackie.

Quote from: Fritzs;221291Oh, thats trully great... now, let's have look at Jackalope's game:

Jackalope: "You see security guard."
Player: "So... how does that security guard look like...?"
Jackalope: "What..."
Player: "You know... looks, metatype..."
Jackalope: "It's fucking security guard, so, do you shoot, or what?!"
Player: "OK, but, is it guy or girl...?"
Jackalope: "FUCK YOU, YOU PRETENTIOUS SWINE, IT'S FUCKING SECURITY GUARD FUCKING MINION OF BIGGER ORGANIZATION, IT HAS NO LOOKS, NO PERSONALITY, NOTHING, THIS CRAP IS ACTUALLY DEFINED BY BEING CALLED SECURITY FUCKING GUARD AND IT'S THERE TO BE FUCKING OBSTACLE, CLERAR...? SO, WHAT DO YOU DO...?"
Player: "So, I shoot at shapeless blob of pure primal existence called security guard..."

:rotfl:

That's actually pretty funny Fritz, good job.

Quote from: Engine;221313Yeah, sorry Jackalope, but I'm not really interested in having anything other than a civil, adult conversation. My best wishes, though.

Oh, see, normally when people call me juvenile, tell me my ideas are tedious, and generally twist my argument so they can gloat about how rich and complex and detailed their game is, I just assume they're being a PRETENTIOUS FUCKWAD.  I didn't realize acting like a snide, pimply teenage fuckwit was suddenly the new definition of "civil and adult."

You want to have a civil conversation, try NOT starting with the assumption that whoever you are arguing with is a mindless simpleton.

QuoteEdit: Also, since this keeps coming up, would you like conclusive proof that Paul and I are not the same person? I don't know what would suffice, but I shouldn't think of the method, anyway, since that would allow "me" [us] to manipulate it; why don't you come up with something, instead? You could always come game with us; our table is always open.

No, I know you're not the same person.  It's just that with Paul wearing your sphincter as a hat all the time, and you having your head up your ass, it seems your heads are always in the exact same place in time/space. So it can be hard to tell you apart.

Or maybe, your head is up Paul's ass while he wears your sphincter as a hat.  Like some sort of really lame oroborous.

Yes, absolutely.

It's like he's speaking directly to me!

That's because he's a Troll, and GMs know all the monster languages.

Quote from: Engine;221404That's because he's a Troll, and GMs know all the monster languages.

Wait, so you jump into this thread with your "Neener neener, I'm more grown up than you!" bullshit, and somehow I'm the troll?  What. The. Fuck. Ever.

Yes, because I didn't do that.

[edit: I also didn't call you juvenile. I did say that my group would find the villains you described as tedious, but did not say your ideas were tedious, only that my group wouldn't enjoy them; I specifically stated I believed many groups would. I also didn't gloat about how rich and complex my game is; I didn't talk very much about my game; I think the most I said was, "all my NPCs display 'signs of individuality,' but that need be no more than a hint here or a brief description of something they're wearing that has more story behind it, available should the players ask, but not shoved down their throat if the characters aren't interested in it," which isn't exactly "rich" or "complex."

I don't know what your guilty conscience is trying to tell you, but I wish it could speak more to you, and less to us. I think your game is fine, I just probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as those I play in.]

Quote from: Jackalope;221387try NOT starting with the assumption that whoever you are arguing with is a mindless simpleton.

At that point I'm sure it wasn't an assumption.

...
eh, I couldn't resist.

On a more serious note, ignoring Jackie's cries of foul and fowl, not every detail of the NPC's I create is discovered by the players. Sometimes the path that they choose in the course of the adventure leads them directly to my NPC, sometimes directly away.

So maybe my Ares Security Guard with a gambling habit never gets used, or maybe they find him and exploit him. I don't mind either way, since I enjoy creating minor details like that as I go.

Quote from: Jackalope;221134Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding you, but I can't see how it could possibly be useful.  Starting with the assumption that every group is a special little snowflake that needs to be catered to individually seems a very ass-backwards way of deconstructing the universal structures of popular forms.

I can point to role-playing games that were written to cater to very specific individual tastes.  Some of them are quite good.  Some of them are the worst games ever written.  None of them sell worth shit.

If you're aiming for a wide consumer base - ie, a popular game (no, not your* favourite game, but one that actually sells more than a few thousand copies), then you have to make it as appealing as possible to as many of those customers as you can in order to maximize sales. Therefore, by necessity, it won't be narrow in scope or focus, but fairly open-ended.

If you're targetting a niche within a niche, then you can get more specific and aim the magnifiying lense more precisely.

Popular games are popular for a reason - lots of people like them. Usually because they are not stifled by a narrow focus, but provide tools for individual groups to make the game their own. In writing the game, you presume nothing and provide a framework for folks to hang their own stuff from. You simply cannot cater individually. You have to provide tools so that people can do it themselves.

*generic 'your', not you Jackalope.

Quote from: Jackalope;221410Wait, so you jump into this thread with your "Neener neener, I'm more grown up than you!" bullshit, and somehow I'm the troll?  What. The. Fuck. Ever.

And here I thought I didn't know of any teenage girls who role-played! Did the RPG Site adopt a ten year old girl while I was at work?

Quote from: Serious Paul;221415So maybe my Ares Security Guard with a gambling habit never gets used, or maybe they find him and exploit him. I don't mind either way, since I enjoy creating minor details like that as I go.

That's what happens to me, too. Since so much time - years, sometimes - goes by between my GMing, I have plenty of time to flesh out the details of the setting and the people who live in it [a must, for sandbox games like mine, particularly since I'm apparently incapable of writing anything down]. I don't do this for the players, or for the game, I do this because it's what my brain does when I'm not using it for something else; it's just happy fortune that it fits well with the sort of game my group enjoys.

Way to ruin what could have been a great thread...

It's not hopeless. Add something other than the asinine!