Quote from: One Horse TownSeems that the day of the paper RPG magazine is largely over (and was hardly particularly widespread, even in its heyday).

But is a new magazine viable in this day and age?

I wonder if you could do a general RPG magazine - that is, an RPG mag that covers role-playing games in all media.

A section on PC + console RPG games - WoW, a section on wargaming, a section on tabletop RPGs, a section on larping?, a section on genre inspirations - movies & books.

Video game print mags are at present in a rather struggling state.  Online is where the money's at these days.

Emphasis mine:

Quote from: The Good AssyrianDoesn't sound like a great business model to me.  As I said, someone may be able to pull it off, but it would likely require charging at least $10 an issue or reducing production quality far below what was standard for the likes of Dragon, either of which would risk restricting its market appeal.

That, for me, is where almost every recent effort to kickstart a gaming magazine (with the honourable exception of KoDT). Like I said in my first post in this thread, we are a small hobby, but for some goddamn reason we've collectively decided that newsprint magazines of the sort that model train collectors and historical minis wargamers put out simply won't cut it: we demand glossy magazines, full-colour interiors, and snazzy cover art.

Frankly, I don't understand it. I can only assume that gamers are horribly spoiled by the sort of production values that the top-name companies can provide, and get tremendously butthurt if their favourite game or magazine settles for something more economical.

The only gaming magazine I make an effort to spring for these days is Warpstone. It's a quarterly fanzine for WFRP, made for love rather than profit as far as I can see, and selling well to a particular fanbase. Even so, it doesn't approach Dragon-level production standards, because they know damn well they can't afford it.

Quote from: SeanchaiEr. I assumed the ads would be there.

Seanchai

That is a HUGE assumption. Advertisers putting up money in the range I was discussing, well, in this industry? Most companies, even big companies, value word of mouth much more. Your first problem would be to address how to attract those advertisers. Circulation numbers? Not so for a new mag. Focus of the mag? Maybe, but it would need to be enough to attract a large readership combined with focused enough to convince advertisers that they would be able to target their core market.

It really is a chicken and egg thing.

Bill

Quote from: SeanchaiUm, dude. That's not the show's website. That's the website for the TAPS group. Here's the show's website. As you can see, no mention of a magazine on the show's website.

Seanchai

 Um, ok, but it's at the top of the list on a web search and has links to the show, and the show's spin-off radio program on it, links to their appearances. Honestly man, how are you having such a hard time seeing how the show affects the exposure of the organization and magazine dedicated to it? It took me seconds to find a link to the magazine. If I were actually interested in that shit, had watched the show and wanted to learn more, the fuckin search would have led me right to it. They talk about TAPS in the show, have it on their clothes and vehicles... shit, the damn magazine might as well be about the show. Your comparision is apples to oranges, and you know it. Everything else is just you being arguementative.

Quote from: SigmundEverything else is just you being arguementative.

Seanchai? No! It couldn't be!



-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceSeanchai? No! It couldn't be!



-clash

HA! I know, just trying to give the benefit of the doubt here.

Hell, we used to stock model train magazines in the grocery stores around here. Apparently even that subculture is bigger than ours... never woulda guessed myself. We also used to carry Renaissance magazine (about ren fairs and stuff) at BAM, but of course no RPG mags even though we stocked DnD and WW stuff. I've had a hard time coming up with a hobby that might compare to ours from the magazine angle anyway.

Quote from: HinterWeltThat is a HUGE assumption.

Not really. I didn't see huge "Put your ad here!" ads in Dragon.

Seanchai

Quote from: SigmundUm, ok, but it's at the top of the list on a web search and has links to the show, and the show's spin-off radio program on it, links to their appearances.

In other words, "Yes, Seanchai, you're right. The ad I'm talking about is on the group page, not the show page."

Quote from: SigmundHonestly man, how are you having such a hard time seeing how the show affects the exposure of the organization and magazine dedicated to it?

Because as a fan of the show and the group, someone who's gone to the conventions, talked to Jason and Grant, and who visits the website you I know just how many people don't realize TAPS exists outside the show.

Quote from: SigmundYour comparision is apples to oranges, and you know it.

You might want that to be the case, but it isn't.

Seanchai

Quote from: The Good AssyrianI hate to break it to you, but I suspect that the demographic that this magazine targets (believers in the paranormal) is about 100 times the size of the demographic that an RPG mag would cater to.*

That's right. Of course, when you Google "paranormal magazine," there are five other magazines that pop up along side the TAPS Paramagazine as well. And while TAPS certainly has its fan, it also has its detractors. Moreover, WotC estimates there are four to six million D&D players.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiNot really. I didn't see huge "Put your ad here!" ads in Dragon.

Seanchai

No, but they had no lack of advertisers. I am not talking about ads for ads, I am talking about attracting the advertising revenue that will pay for everything from printing to editing.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltNo, but they had no lack of advertisers. I am not talking about ads for ads, I am talking about attracting the advertising revenue that will pay for everything from printing to editing.

Sure. But I'm saying, since Dragon didn't appear to be hurting, I wasn't assuming a new magazine would be starved for ad revenue (once it had gotten itself established). I understand that a new magazine would face hurdles convincing advertisers to sign on.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiSure. But I'm saying, since Dragon didn't appear to be hurting, I wasn't assuming a new magazine would be starved for ad revenue (once it had gotten itself established). I understand that a new magazine would face hurdles convincing advertisers to sign on.

Seanchai

And those hurdles are precisely what will kill a mag as it builds its circulation. I mean, we are talking about why there are so few print mags right?

Sure, now there might be a gap in print mags but there are still oodles of places for companies to spend their ad budgets. A sizable part of which goes to retailer only targeted mags. Why? Because guess what? A lot of the bigger companies view retailers as their customers, not gamers. Don't get me wrong, that is shifting now, as some retailers continue to truly and fundamentally screw it up. Publishers are finding themselves functioning in the role of retailer. Suddenly, it sounds like you would have an opening right? No, most of this ad budget goes to online ads, cons and other venues that target online RPGers.

So, to say the least, the problem is not simple. Ad revenue is important but it is not a simple case of stepping into the shoes of Dragon.

Bill

Quote from: SeanchaiYou might want that to be the case, but it isn't.

Seanchai

Yes it is.

Couple interesting articles if anyone is interested in giving it a go...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3065/is_n3_v22/ai_13769940

http://startamagazine.org/

Edit: Another...

http://www.publishingbiz.com/