Pundit said this over in that Character compexity thread:

Quote1E was pretty well just as fast at character creation as the Basic set. In either of the two, because there were very few initial choices that were required of the player, you could shoot off a character in under 5 minutes.
RPGPundit

Okay then......


I am now thinking of ways of trying to do that wirh GURPS , and Still have it be , well GURPS.

Any one have ideas or suggestions for that challenge?


 How about the same challenge for HERO system?
A playable character in roughly 5 minutes

The Savage Worlds RPG system ?

Dungeons &Dragons 3.5/e for that matter....
( 5 minutes or less...)


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarDungeons &Dragons 3.5/e for that matter....
( 5 minutes or less...)

For a level 1 character, trivial.  Pick your race and class, roll your stats, and put them in the order the PHB says.  Pick one of the starting packages for your class.  You're done.

Five minutes? 25 point characters, very limited list of options.  This is what I did with my GURPS Harry Potter game and it went great.

Savage Worlds is already in the ten minute range, extra copies of the book tend to speed it up a little more than that.

This might not be a good answer, but could you come up with a template system ahead of time?  BESM 3 is a point buy system, but an alternate method is to take templates and then modify them.  It would be a lot of work upfront creating templates but once it was done you could generate characters in minutes.

Quote from: KoltarI am now thinking of ways of trying to do that wirh GURPS , and Still have it be , well GURPS.

Any one have ideas or suggestions for that challenge?

You are pretty knowledgeable about GURPS. Why wouldn't a well crafted template work?  I am bringing this up because it seems to me an obvious answer with GURPS or any point-buy system.

Note that existing GURPS template are too brief. This is what I use in my game. Note my example is very specific but it can be used for more general templates.

Myrmidon of Sarrath
The Myrmidons are warriors in the service of the god Sarrath. Ruthless and unforgiving they are feared throughout the land. Their role is to enforce the orthodoxy of church, lead military forces, and be the vanguard of attacks against demons and their spawn. The Myrmidon has been trained to believe that it is only Sarrath that truly stands between the land and the return of the Demons. That they are his sword and shield of his church.

Philosophy
Sarrath is widely viewed as "evil" among the lands dominated by the followers of the goddess Delaquain. Nothing could further from the truth.  Demons and their ilk are the true evil and only discipline and eternal vigilance can keep them at bay.  Nothing is more important than the church's work in safeguarding against demonic attack. The influence of demons are everywhere. They continually seed chaos and evil in their wake. The Gynorians and other followers of the goddess Delaquain are to be reviled. Their weakness has allowed demons to regain a foothold in the land. The chaos gripping both Sahar and Eastgate is proof of that.

Myrmidon is taught to work within the hierarchy and to assist the church. Being warriors they are extremely competitive but they will obey those who are placed over them. They expect obedience from below. When faced when those who slack in their duty they will seek to remove them and turn them over to authority. No mercy is shown those who have betrayed their oath or who consorts with demons.

Attributes:
ST 11 [10], DX 12 [20], IQ 12 [20], HT 11 [10]

Advantages
Choose 25 points worth of advantages which must include at least one of Blessed [10], Clerical Investment [5/level], Power Investment [5/level] or True Faith [15], plus one or more of Combat Reflexes [15], High Pain Threshold [10], Higher Purpose [5], Literacy [10], Luck [15], Military Rank [5 / level], Oracle [15], Patron (Church) [varies], Status [5/level], and Toughness (DR 1)
Disadvantages
A total of -30 points selected from Disciplines of Faith [-5 to -15], Code of Honor [-10], Duty Church [varies], Fanaticism (Religion) {15], Intolerance (Religious) [-5 or -10], Overconfidence [-10], Sense of Duty [-5 to -15], and Vow [-5 to -15]

Primary Skills
Theology(M/H) IQ [4]-12, and an additional 16 points in Combat/Weapon Skills.

Secondary Skills
Tactics (M/H) IQ-1 [2]-11, Performance/Ritual (M/A) IQ [2]-12, and 4 points spent among  Strategy (M/H), Diplomacy (M/H), Law (Thule) (M/H), Occultism (M/A), and Teaching (M/A).

Background Skills
Armoury/3 (M/A) IQ [1]-11, and a total of 5 point in any of First Aid (M/E), Adminstration, Leadership, and Politics (all M/A), Detect Lies, Exorcism, and Psychology (all M/H), Meditation(M/VH), Singing (P/E;HT), and Riding (both P/A).

QuoteNote that many GURPS Template stop. I go further to make it easy for non-GURPS players to understand their choices

Detailed Explanation

Blessed [10]
Sarrath grants the ability to cast divination at IQ by reading the entrails of a scarified snake.
All reptiles, including dragons, will not attack the Myrmidon unless attacked first.
+1 reaction from all followers of Sarrath.

Clerical Investment [5/level]
Able to lead rituals and ceremonies of the church of Sarrath. A Notable must take one level, a Lieutenant must take two levels, a Captain three levels, a High Captain four levels.  Myrmidons, Notables, and Lieutenants serving a High Captain (by extension the Grand Archon) must take an additional level of Investment. i.e. a Notable in service to the High Captain has to take two levels of investment.

Power Investment [5/level]
The foundation of the ability to channel magic using the power of Sarrath. Each level give +1 to casting spells and counts as the equivalent level in magery. See below for detailed rules on clerical magic.

True Faith [15]
You have a profound faith in Sarrath's mission that allows you to repel all demons from approaching from within a yard of your person provided that you are outfitted in either your full Myrmidon regalia or using a holy symbol of Sarrath.


Combat Reflexes [15]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Toughness (DR 1)

These advantage are taken by Myrmidon who focus more on their warrior aspect.

Higher Purpose [5]
To serve the Church of Sarrath in ridding the world of the demons. You will get +1 when on a mission from the Church or in situations involving demons.

Literacy [10]
Note that is not necessary for magic. However it is useful if you want to achieve high rank within the church and society.

Luck [15]
You been blessed by Sarrath with luck. Three times per hour of gameplay you get to re-roll a dice roll.

Military Rank [5 / level]
Myrmidons are encouraged to become leaders of society outside of the church.  The most common route is serving in a realm's military forces.

Oracle [15]
Unseen forces shape the world manifesting themselves in subtle ways. Sarrath has granted you the ability to see these forces allowing you to get a sense of events before they happened. However the signs are generally not clear and require interpretation (based on a IQ roll).

Patron (Church) [varies]
The Archons and Prelates of the church have taken in an interest in your career and are able to give you aid from time to time

Status [5/level]
You hold rank in society.

Disciplines of Faith [-5 to -15]
Asceticism:-15
The renunciation of all the comforts of society to lead a life of self-denial and self-discipline. A few Myrmidon practice Asceticism viewing comforts as distractions from their holy quest of ridding the Wilderlands of Demons and bringing order. You may not have any Status or Wealth advantages if you practice Asceticism.

Monasticism:-10
A milder form of asceticism. You lead a life separated from worldly concerns, devoting yourself to constant training and study. You may not have any Status or Wealth. More than a few Myrmidon have little or no life outside of their missions and the chapterhouses.

Ritualism:-5
The strict adherence to elaborate rituals regarding every aspect of life. This is prevalent among more experienced Myrmidons after a few missions involving demons. They learn the various charms, rituals, wards, and spells that work against demons and incorporate them in everyday life.

Code of Honor [-10]
Sarrath Code of Honor is as follows
Never break your word
Always be faithful to the church
Obey those placed above you
Instill discipline in those placed below you.
Fight demons without cessation
The enemies of Sarrath are to be vanquished without mercy.


Duty Church [varies]
A Myrmidons life is not on constant duty. For example Duke Divolic was granted leave by the Hellbridge Temple over 15 years ago to assume the duties of the Warden of the Southern Marches. Taking this disadvantage means that you are on a particular mission that requires a lot of direction from a captain or an archon.

Fanaticism (Religion) [15]
You believe in Sarrath and his mission. Without question you will risk life and limb to serve the church, vanquish demons, and kill those who serve them.

Intolerance (Religious) [-5 or -10]
Many Myrmidons have intolerance of Gynorians and other followers of Delaquain [-5]
Not uncommon is are those Myrmidons that believe that anybody not part of the church is somehow serving demons and against Sarrath [-10]


Overconfidence [-10]
Sense of Duty [-5 to -15]
Vow [-5 to -15]

These three are common personality traits found among Myrmidons.

QuoteI found the detailed explanations appended to my campaign's template to be the key in making the complexity of GURPS approachable to new players as well as a simplifying initial character generation.

Particularly for D20 players presenting the choice of GURPS in this manner is little different than reading up on a particular class or prestige class.

I'm a GURPS newbie, but I had two players create characters on Sunday.

They used GCA with a few templates I set up. Two characters were created in about 45 minutes, with a lot of joking around during it. Not bad actually, maybe 15 minutes spent on each character (not sure I could widdle it down to 5 mins.) This is for a a Star Trek game, so I had templates for Academy graduates and various specializations (security, sciences, medical, etc.)

Note: we tried to create characters after a session of Privateers and Gentlemen a few weeks ago, with just a generic "Starfleet Academy" template developed. It was a lot slower, and we eventually gave up because it was already late. The character creation program really sped things up because the players could skim huge lists of ads, disads, and skills, and ask me what how they functioned, while I just fired off a summary from the Characters book. Without a program, I can't see speeding up point-buy systems greatly.

It may be difficult.


...but I still want to work on it.


Gimme a week after the retail madness has calmed down. Managing or even assistant managing a store can sometimes be exhausting.


Anyone else have suggestions?

Think I'm looking for a way to do that random character genewration chart page from 3rd editon GURPS - but in a 4/e GURPS kind of way.


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarThink I'm looking for a way to do that random character genewration chart page from 3rd editon GURPS - but in a 4/e GURPS kind of way.

First thing I thought of. 'Course I know dingus about Ye Olde 4the Editione, so that's all you, baby, that's aaaaallllll yooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuu.

I...don't know when I'm still typing, anymore.

In five minutes...? Absolutely impossible in systems like GURPS.

Give up.

Quote from: FritzsIn five minutes...? Absolutely impossible in systems like GURPS.

If you're tryin' to eat the whole cow, it's a lost cause, sure.  But if you're just makin' patties...?

QuoteGive up.

"...and that's how we put a man on the moon, lil' childrens!"

Quote from: FritzsIn five minutes...? Absolutely impossible in systems like GURPS.

Give up.

BULLSHIT.

I'll do it with 4 players at a future Gencon. Only dice they will need are six siders.  Four players, ME as GM, character creation in less than 5 to 6 minutes. (gotta allow at least 45 seconds for bad puns and BS-ing)


There will be a quick character creation chart by then.

Game session will be 2 to 3 hours in length .


- Ed C.

Koltar: I won't belive it until I see it with my own eyes...

Sorry, but my experience is that it takes at least twenty minutes to come up with absolutely simple character even in games like WuShu...

For experienced GURPS players a hundred point character in under five minutes shouldn't present a problem as long as they aren't expected to do equipment or can pick a pregenerated load out.

Really, a futuristic military squad game might be the easy out.  Tell 'em they'll need an NCO, a Heavy, a Scout, and grunts with hooks.

Quote from: KoltarBULLSHIT.

I'll do it with 4 players at a future Gencon. Only dice they will need are six siders.  Four players, ME as GM, character creation in less than 5 to 6 minutes. (gotta allow at least 45 seconds for bad puns and BS-ing)


There will be a quick character creation chart by then.

Game session will be 2 to 3 hours in length .


- Ed C.

Flowchart, you want a flowchart with concise explanation of the options. Instead of the standard template format recast it as a flowchart.

I am not keen on the randomization idea as that defeats the idea of GURPS in the first place. The trick is to distill the available options into a five minute format.

What genre you are looking to run this game in. I can try to work up an example of what I am talking about.