Quote from: Pierce InverarityI like dogs better.

Are there no loldogs?

I stand corrected.

It's time, Frodo.

Quote from: SgtSpaceWizardFirst thing i was able to google up was posted at TBP...

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/wotcdemo.html

An interesting sample of data from WOTC research...



Only a small portion of that survey seems to be about RPGs, but there you go.

Thanks SgtSpaceWizard, that's the stuff/survey I'm referring to.  

At least to me, from looking at the questions, I don't take "storyteller" to mean player narrative control but rather a desire to have the adventures make a cool story (either by the strung together actions or pre-planned plots) and a willingness to accept some "railroading" if the story you can tell afterwards is cool.

Quote from: SgtSpaceWizardAlso there's some data about player types with a colorful chart here...

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/gaming/BreakdownOfRPGPlayers.html

Basically it breaks down players into thinkers, power gamers, storytellers, and character actors.

Validating the article written by the late Glenn Blacow in 1980.

Quote from: Old GeezerValidating the article written by the late Glenn Blacow in 1980.

Ah, good link. I notice Greg Costikyan is mentioned as writing an article for DW along the same lines (elaborating on Blacow's article I presume). I know the first place I saw someone attempt to categorise players in such a fashion was in the Price of Freedom rules, a Costikyan designed game.

In any case, it seems the OP has not seen any of this WOTC research data for one reason or another.

Sorry to interrupt the cat and bunny pics. As you were.  

Quote from: Old GeezerValidating the article written by the late Glenn Blacow in 1980.

There is also a an article on role-playing theory terminology here written by Phil Masters for Interactive Fantasy in the mid-90s.  Sprinkled throughout are terms for various play styles (many used by Aaron Allston) that were apparently based on discussions in the Alarums & Excursions APA.

Quote from: Christmas ApeYou're like a nest full of retarded bees.

Personal attacks. In a thread you say amuses you. Clearly, clearly, something is upsetting you. Won't you please just tell us what it is so we can help you?

Seanchai

Quote from: James McMurrayIf you honestly have never seen such blatantly different play styles discussed, feel free to browse around here.

Let me guess, it's all self-reported, right?

Two things: People will state their behavior is different than it actually is, particularly if there are social ramifications or negatives attached to their actual behavior.

Also, a number of people believing something is true doesn't make it so. Millions believing in ghosts isn't objective proof that they exists, it's only proof that people believe they exist.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiLet me guess, it's all self-reported, right?

Two things: People will state their behavior is different than it actually is, particularly if there are social ramifications or negatives attached to their actual behavior.

Also, a number of people believing something is true doesn't make it so. Millions believing in ghosts isn't objective proof that they exists, it's only proof that people believe they exist.

Seanchai

So just to be clear, you only believe that things exist after exhaustive scientific studies by third party observers?  That must make life very difficult.

Quote from: SeanchaiLet me guess, it's all self-reported, right?

Is this any worse evidence than your conclusions drawn from what?  Your own self-reported experience or observations of a limited number of games?   Do not the other thread posters observations of games they palyed in count for as much?

QuoteTwo things: People will state their behavior is different than it actually is, particularly if there are social ramifications or negatives attached to their actual behavior.

The same applies to the description of others behaivor by third party observers.   What are these negative social ramifications you speak of in a survey of RPG likes?  It's not like you are asking them to admit to illegal or morally reprehenisble behaivor.  Rather its just asking what do you like in an RPG.  I can't see a reasonable basis to believe people would be anything but honest on this one unless what they like borders on the perverse.

In addition, you are skewing the original poll which was  focused on what you like or want (important to you , not important to you, etc.) than how you actually played.  So the whole interpretation of actual events problem does not exist in this data.  

Are you saying in the case of RPGs people are particularily prone to not know what they really want so as to make this data worthless?  All such self reporting data has cautions that come with it but it does not make it worthless data especially when a statistically significant enough answers are garnered.  Or, again, in a situation where you are asking people what they like and there is no moral, legal, or economic reason for them to lie or molify there responses.

QuoteAlso, a number of people believing something is true doesn't make it so. Millions believing in ghosts isn't objective proof that they exists, it's only proof that people believe they exist. Seanchai

No it doesn't, but neither does your belief on the playstyle debate supported by the same level or less of evidence counter the belief in playstyle preferences held by others.    

The believers in ghost analogy is also inapplicable here (besides using the word belief).  This is not a poll about object reality but what people like and don't like in a game.  Those who like X in a game could reasonably be said to prefer a different play style than those who hate X in a game.   If I hate role-playing for example, a game where the GM want's me to role-play tipping the stable boy before I mount my horse is going to be something I don't like.  There is nothing delusional in that or requiring objective proof.  It's what I like and I know it, end of story.

Not that I'm that extreme, most are not, most probably prefer a mix; but that doesn't mean there is no such thing as different preferences in playstyle.

That was the whole point of the WotC poll, to find out what most people wanted and give it to them.  Something TSR never seemed to care about.

Quote from: SeanchaiLet me guess, it's all self-reported, right?

Two things: People will state their behavior is different than it actually is, particularly if there are social ramifications or negatives attached to their actual behavior.

Interesting. so what you're saying is that if someone reports something different from what you believe in, they're lying. How very religious of you.

QuoteAlso, a number of people believing something is true doesn't make it so. Millions believing in ghosts isn't objective proof that they exists, it's only proof that people believe they exist.

Seanchai

We're not talking about beliefs. We're talking about reported play experiences firmly rooted in the real world. No ghosts and boogeymen involved.

Quote from: jgantsSo just to be clear, you only believe that things exist after exhaustive scientific studies by third party observers?  That must make life very difficult.

"I've been to The Atlantic Paranormal Society conferences. Ask and you'll get a sea of hands of people who claim to have seen a ghost. They're earnest. They remember it. A lot of make the same claims. I obviously believe in ghost."

Just to be clear, what I believe is that my belief in ghost - and the belief of quite a number of other people - does not constitute proof.

Seanchai

Quote from: James McMurrayInteresting. so what you're saying is that if someone reports something different from what you believe in, they're lying. How very religious of you.

No, that's your strawman.

Quote from: James McMurrayWe're not talking about beliefs.

Sure we are. You're forwarding a number of people's experiences as true without having witnessed them yourself. Moreover, what people believe and what people believe about themselves color their perceptions and recollection of events. It's true in general and it's true when it comes to how people play RPGs.

Quote from: James McMurrayWe're talking about reported play experiences firmly rooted in the real world. No ghosts and boogeymen involved.

The people who investigate hauntings would say that they're experiences are firmly-rooted in the real world as well. They'll tell you that, beyond a doubt, they have repeatedly seen ghosts or experienced paranormal activity.

You're saying that when a number of people report something, it has to be true. So, again, how about ghost? Miracles? Alien abductions, bigfoot, psychic abilities, and the Loch Ness Monster?

Seanchai