all that for 2nd level?  you're shitting me, right?

the power curve gets higher.  (sigh) if it brings in new blood for the hobby, good.  i'll be having more fun with low-power fantasy playing something else.

Quote from: SettembriniCool session?

I´d rather call it void of any soul or enthusiasm.

You must've read something different from what I read, then.

Quote from: Consonant DudeOn a tangent here: looking at WotC's upcoming summer schedule, it's more setting/adventure agressive than the one we got when 3e was released. I think they've figured out Dancey was out to lunch with his "adventures/settings are sinkholes" philosophy.

Yeah, but a) they're not supporting as many settings as TSR did back in the day, which was the whole point of the Dancey strategy - paring down the number of settings that Wizards was providing direct support for to a managable number, and b) many of the adventures seem to be designed to provide smooth introductions to the 4E system, which sounds very sensible to me - people will want to have examples of how 4E adventures are constructed.

QuoteWhich most probably means they will correct the OGL mistake by 5th edition.

What "OGL mistake" are you thinking of?

Quote from: Settembrinino comment.

Well thank fucking god for small miracles.

Quote from: DrewI also recall reading that iconic monsters would be scalable, so a 2nd level party wouldn't have to miss out on them when playing through a short or gritty campaign.

Sounds like the philosophy behind 4E is: Everything. Now.

Quote from: HaffrungSounds like the philosophy behind 4E is: Everything. Now.

*shrug* Even if true, I'd say it's better than "Some Stuff You Should Like, Some Day. For Now, Avoid The Angry Terrier, Schlub!"

Quote from: beeberall that for 2nd level?  you're shitting me, right?

the power curve gets higher.  (sigh) if it brings in new blood for the hobby, good.  i'll be having more fun with low-power fantasy playing something else.

Is it even a curve anymore?

Or by level 10, does the fighter have the power to cleave the planet in twain, the cleric to resurrect dead gods, and the wizard to hurl cosmic stars at people instead of fireballs?

I have a feeling that immortals from the old BD&D game are going to be significantly weaker than Epic level characters in 4e...

Quote from: jgantsIs it even a curve anymore?

Or by level 10, does the fighter have the power to cleave the planet in twain, the cleric to resurrect dead gods, and the wizard to hurl cosmic stars at people instead of fireballs?

Thus far in favor of that idea we have:
1) Nerd Rage
2) Rampant Speculation
3) Things Pulled Directly From Asses

Opposing that idea we have:
1) Anything coming out of WotC that would describe the power level.

Here's the two feats we've seen intended for levels 10+:

First Reaction
Tier: Paragon
Benefit: If you are surprised, you may spend an action point to act during the surprise round.

Golden Wyvern Adept
Tier: Paragon
Benefit: You can omit a number of squares from the effects of any of your area or close wizard powers. This number can’t exceed your Wisdom modifier.

Holy shit it's Dragonball!!11!11one!11dumbfuckery.

:rolleyes:

Quote from: jgantsI have a feeling that immortals from the old BD&D game are going to be significantly weaker than Epic level characters in 4e...

Then I'd have to recommend putting down the crack pipe and educating yourself on what they've released so far, via this page, unless you want to keep on :hissyfit: :footinmouth:. You'd be in broad company, but there's a better way.


EDIT: In retrospect this may be harsher than warranted; I just see a whole lot of people saying dumbfuck things about 4e pretty much every day on ENWorld where they can't be...properly corrected...and it kinda exploded. But I'm not gonna backtrack and edit my words; just know on reflection they were more explosive than calculated.

Quote from: Consonant DudeMearls is at his best (IMO) when doing fluff.

I consider him to have one of the deeper understanding of mechanics and their short and long term effects on play.  I've always had the impression that he likes 80-90% of 3E so I wouldn't be surprised if the core system is largely the same.

Quote from: NicephorusI consider him to have one of the deeper understanding of mechanics and their short and long term effects on play.  I've always had the impression that he likes 80-90% of 3E so I wouldn't be surprised if the core system is largely the same.

It likely -operates- similarly, but there's been much talk from their mathematician on staff (yes, they have one in Design & Development) about how the math underlying the whole system was both changed and done in advance on a spreadsheet, from which all design flows.

Oh, and the unified 1/2 level BAB/save advancement.

...Or we could just all wait for the book(s) to come out in May and see if they're worth all the fuss or not.

We really don't know much until we can physicaslly browse at these books or purchase them and try to put them in play. (yeah I know, I'm not really a D&D player - but you know what I mean)

If WotC really screwed up - then we'll all know that by sometime around the next Gencon.


- Ed C.

Hey, thanks for another non-post there, K-man.

The men with the two hairiest avatars on theRPGsite... locked in mortal combat! Excellent.

Quote from: Christmas ApeEDIT: In retrospect this may be harsher than warranted; I just see a whole lot of people saying dumbfuck things about 4e pretty much every day on ENWorld where they can't be...properly corrected...and it kinda exploded. But I'm not gonna backtrack and edit my words; just know on reflection they were more explosive than calculated.

I think your EnWorld experience has led to brain fever, my dear holiday simian, for you clearly misinterpreted my post.  

The first part was using sarcasm.  I wasn't saying 10th level characters really would have powers like that; I was saying that in order to have a power curve that 10th level characters would have to have insanely high powerful abilities like that if the example we were given represented typical 2nd level characters (as tackling a mob of powerful goblins and a dragon without breaking too bad of a sweat is more akin to 7-9th level PCs in ye olde versions of (A)D&D).

As to the second part, I do seriously think that epic level characters in D&D 4e will be more powerful than BD&D immortals.  Immortals weren't that high powered in the grand scheme of things.

It looks to me like D&D is going to flatten the curve a bit - with more front-loaded abilities and the potential for more powers later (more similar to the way the Palladium/Rifts system handles character power levels).

PCs teleporting around and killing dragons at 2nd level sounds pretty high-power to me.

And there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what WotC and its customers want. The thing that I get a kick out of is people who, for some peculiar reason, feel the need to deny that 4E will be a different game in some respects than 3.5, or 1E.

Why is it so hard to admit that different versions of D&D are tailored to different play styles, and folks may have legitimate reasons for prefering not to play a particular edition?