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Does anyone here actually PLAY eclipse phase?

Started by matt swain, April 25, 2021, 05:46:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Rhedyn

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 28, 2021, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: Rhedyn on April 28, 2021, 07:59:52 PMBut generally, using philosophical arguments to say a thinking feeling creature is one we have no moral obligations too is pure villainy regardless.

Im talking purely theoretically. Im incapable of taking the "bad guy" route even in videogames, because I feel bad being bad to simulated pixel people.

Im saying that human ethics in EP would be phased out almost immediately, and thise people would not be humans. I see myself having a moral obligation to wasps, but I will not morally police them.
Even non-forked, non-backed-up, birth-sleeve people in EP are not "flats". They have enhancements and information connectivity that makes them fairly incomprehensible to regular humans. Only the strictest bioconservatives are still basically human.

Yet, if we time traveled 100 years into the future or past, we would struggle to communicate with someone speaking our own language.

At the same time I really doubt the post-humans and the trans-humans would throw out normal human ethical notions just because some philosophical ideas. It's like how immortality would be great and "the crushing weight of time" is just philosophical bullshit.

SHARK

Quote from: Pat on April 28, 2021, 05:18:10 PM
Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 04:39:44 PM
I left here in disgust but decided to see what happened to my thread a couple days later. I was amazed to see a real discussion growing out of the shitstorm some assholes here turned it into.
You incorrectly pluralized asshole. There was only one asshole.

Notice how real discussion only happened when the person stinking up the thread left.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Very sharp observation, Pat!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Shrieking Banshee

Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 08:26:06 PMLibertarianism will not work until there are some real paradigm shifts in human nature or culture. The game "bioshock' was an example of how a libertarian system would collapse in short order. Even with plasmids the libertarian paradise of rapture was doomed.
I wasn't asking for your opinion on libertarianism (and what you described was a fallen anarcho-capitalism on a objectivist framing). But wether you could respect ME as a basis for conversation to not shit talk people for having different opinions then you.

You didn't answer the question again and just started trying to crowbar your opinion in. That shows a lack of respect.

matt swain

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 28, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 08:26:06 PMLibertarianism will not work until there are some real paradigm shifts in human nature or culture. The game "bioshock' was an example of how a libertarian system would collapse in short order. Even with plasmids the libertarian paradise of rapture was doomed.
I wasn't asking for your opinion on libertarianism (and what you described was a fallen anarcho-capitalism on a objectivist framing). But wether you could respect ME as a basis for conversation to not shit talk people for having different opinions then you.

You didn't answer the question again and just started trying to crowbar your opinion in. That shows a lack of respect.

I managed to support libertarianism for the sake of a friend who was one and died a few years back.

After libertarians threw in with that thing we had in the white house for 4 years, no, i can't.
RPG.net is a cancer on the left and a disgrace to reasonable progressives that should be denounced and shunned by anyone considering themselves a progressive.

Shrieking Banshee

Quote from: Rhedyn on April 28, 2021, 08:27:29 PM
At the same time I really doubt the post-humans and the trans-humans would throw out normal human ethical notions just because some philosophical ideas. It's like how immortality would be great and "the crushing weight of time" is just philosophical bullshit.
Oh so im speaking with an immortal from a society of immortals? Fascinating. Do tell me how thats like since you have the REAL opinion on this.

Ratman_tf

Quote from: Rhedyn on April 28, 2021, 08:27:29 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 28, 2021, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: Rhedyn on April 28, 2021, 07:59:52 PMBut generally, using philosophical arguments to say a thinking feeling creature is one we have no moral obligations too is pure villainy regardless.

Im talking purely theoretically. Im incapable of taking the "bad guy" route even in videogames, because I feel bad being bad to simulated pixel people.

Im saying that human ethics in EP would be phased out almost immediately, and thise people would not be humans. I see myself having a moral obligation to wasps, but I will not morally police them.
Even non-forked, non-backed-up, birth-sleeve people in EP are not "flats". They have enhancements and information connectivity that makes them fairly incomprehensible to regular humans. Only the strictest bioconservatives are still basically human.

Yet, if we time traveled 100 years into the future or past, we would struggle to communicate with someone speaking our own language.

At the same time I really doubt the post-humans and the trans-humans would throw out normal human ethical notions just because some philosophical ideas. It's like how immortality would be great and "the crushing weight of time" is just philosophical bullshit.

I wonder what would happen to a human brain divorced completely from the soup of hormones and sensory inputs a human body puts out. I can imagine some brain in a jar in a robot body, or an uploaded mind getting so divorced from human concerns that their morality becomes what we would consider wonky.

The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Shrieking Banshee

Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 08:34:06 PMAfter libertarians threw in with that thing we had in the white house for 4 years, no, i can't.

I like that your upfront about it. Willing to throw away friends for politics. Im left more saddened really. I may disagree with my lib friends but still respect them as good people, even though my distaste for their philosophy is probably as caustic as yours to mine.

Anyway then, I guess our conversations are over then.

Ratman_tf

Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 08:34:06 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 28, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 08:26:06 PMLibertarianism will not work until there are some real paradigm shifts in human nature or culture. The game "bioshock' was an example of how a libertarian system would collapse in short order. Even with plasmids the libertarian paradise of rapture was doomed.
I wasn't asking for your opinion on libertarianism (and what you described was a fallen anarcho-capitalism on a objectivist framing). But wether you could respect ME as a basis for conversation to not shit talk people for having different opinions then you.

You didn't answer the question again and just started trying to crowbar your opinion in. That shows a lack of respect.

I managed to support libertarianism for the sake of a friend who was one and died a few years back.

After libertarians threw in with that thing we had in the white house for 4 years, no, i can't.

What the hell does this have to do with Eclipse Phase? You keep dragging the conversation into politics irrelevant to the topic of RPGs.

One might think you were pulling this shit intentionally.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

thedungeondelver

I played EP for some months, my impressions are thus:

The designers don't want you to have fun.  Fun is the timekiller.  It is the little death that brings total distraction.  I will ignore fun, and allow it to pass over me.  When it is gone, only Eclipse Phase will remain.

They're working out their far-left ideology in RPG format.  That always, ALWAYS[/i] sucks. 

The GM explained how open the "universe" was, go anywhere, do anything, etc.  Unlike (Game He Didn't Like), EP allowed you the ability from the ground up to do, have, or own just about anything.  Because, y'know, Fully Automated Space Communism!  So I actually did the math and figured out down to the last layer of kapton film how much stuff it would take to make a spacehab, a central base of operations, and a couple of reactionless-drive shuttles (based on that magnetic engine that people seem to have forgotten about; I figured in the future if power systems were good enough to give you mechs that can move around nearly nonstop, why not one of those drives to slowly accelerate you to .03g or something nice and nippy like that?).  Long story short - and trust me this is about the game being shit, not the GM - he wouldn't allow it because it would somehow break the game.  And it will.  You can break the game if you actually want to do your own thing, and not live in constant terror of Firewall deciding that your character is A Threat and sending someone to deal with you.

Oh, and firewall...yeah, fuck those guys.  "Hey we have a gateway to a planet that we could literally move the bulk of Humanity to and then nuke the gate, and start anew, call it Earth II!  The place is a paradise, the Titans would never find us, etc."  "Hm, WELL WE'LL HAVE TO DESTROY THAT GATE OR KEEP IT ENTIRELY HIDDEN, NOBODY MUST KNOW ABOUT IT BECAUSE REASONS."

It's an ugly depressing game that steals Altered Carbon and stuffs it into an orwellian nightmare mixed with some robot cthulhu bullshit, all written by censorious wokescold dangerhairs whose primary goal seems to be being more obnoxious than Rick on The Young Ones.  Fuck Eclipse Phase.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

Rhedyn

Quote from: thedungeondelver on April 28, 2021, 08:52:43 PM
I played EP for some months, my impressions are thus:

The designers don't want you to have fun.  Fun is the timekiller.  It is the little death that brings total distraction.  I will ignore fun, and allow it to pass over me.  When it is gone, only Eclipse Phase will remain.
I think this was the first and probably last Primary source for this thread.

BoxCrayonTales

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 28, 2021, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 28, 2021, 05:18:29 PMIt's an awesome villain ideology, right? I use a variation of this for the hivemind aliens in my original scifi setting.
Even being a hivemind would be more socially cohesive then Eclipse Phase, because at least a hivemind is designed from top down specifically with some things as expendable and others as not. A drone wouldn't torture another drone (unless needed by the hive) because it's bred and created to provide a strictly utilitarian function.

Okay, maybe I get my wires crossed every so often.

Shrieking Banshee

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 28, 2021, 09:12:54 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on April 28, 2021, 05:44:30 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 28, 2021, 05:18:29 PMIt's an awesome villain ideology, right? I use a variation of this for the hivemind aliens in my original scifi setting.
Even being a hivemind would be more socially cohesive then Eclipse Phase, because at least a hivemind is designed from top down specifically with some things as expendable and others as not. A drone wouldn't torture another drone (unless needed by the hive) because it's bred and created to provide a strictly utilitarian function.

Okay, maybe I get my wires crossed every so often.

I wasn't trying to diss you or anything. Antagonist hive minds that try to make everybody join by force because they see anything else as morally negligent is classic. Such as the borg.

Brad

Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 06:01:02 PM
Fuck you die.

Not only is the AI bad, it quotes an actual Nazi while trying to promote the opposite. Someone needs to work on this implementation badly.
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

jeff37923

Quote from: matt swain on April 28, 2021, 04:39:44 PM
Wow.

I left here in disgust but decided to see what happened to my thread a couple days later. I was amazed to see a real discussion growing out of the shitstorm some assholes here turned it in to.

Oh, you're back. This is my total lack of surprise.

Got any proof for your story about that right wing media star who is going to help you storm the castle of RPGNet? Inquiring minds want to know.




   
Quote

maybe you prefer traveller with it's computers that couldn't run Doom, let alone crysis? (I like traveller BTW, but it's tech is pretty  limited.)

Yeah, you're inexperienced.


"Meh."

thedungeondelver

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2021, 09:22:13 PM
But that's the part I never bought into about this part of the transhumanist genre. I get genetic engineering and cyber-implants, but uploading your actual "YOU" consciousness into a computer is never going to happen. All you'll get is an AI copy trapped in a meaningless existence, echoing fragments of a once living organism's mind. And all of those fragments can be stripped away through updates and editing.

Yeah, the whole "Back yourself up and live forever!" horseshit that transhumanists get into doesn't take in to account your gestalt.  Look, if I make a backup of you, and you're both standing there, and I kill you, the you that's reading this right now?  YOU are dead.  It's over.  Now, if you're a spiritual person, and you believe you go to an afterlife, rock on.  But YOU YOU is dead.  Your experience of the now, reality, is switched off.  It doesn't jump over into the other person.  From my perspective, that other you, that backup, is for my convenience.  The only way around that is to transfer that gestalt from YOU to HIM.  Not ctrl-c, ctrl-v, but ctrl-x, ctrl-v.  And if the latter is done, and the copy you got ctrl-x/ctrl-v'ed into dies?  You're still dead.  Sure, if you face no hazards beyond aging, it is a way to live forever, but the minute someone kills whatever your consciousness - I mean YOUR consciousness, not a copy! - is in, then that's it.  Game over. 

Some people will bring up the whole "Aha, but when you go to sleep you effectively aren't the same person...!"  Yes, you are.  The gestalt continues, albeit through the surreal mindscape of unconscious dream, but the thread is unbroken.  It's not like when I go to sleep tonight, I die, and a new Bill Silvey awakens tomorrow and keeps on chugging.  That's not how it works.  And if it is, at what point does the copy kick in?  The minute I drift off to sleep?  During deep REM?  shallow sleep prior to awakening?  And if you interrupt any of that, am I now both me and this hypothetical copy?  No: sleep is a continuation of gestalt, not a termination of it, and a new gestalt begins at awakening.

"Upload my consciousness" bitch please.  If putting yourself on a floppy disk or atari cartridge is just as valid a "you" as the you that is your gestalt, then typing out your life's history onto paper is a copy of your consciousness!

(And it ain't)
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l