What Do You Do When A Setting Has Too Much Detail?

Greentongue · March 21, 2021, 05:11:42 PM

There are a number of settings that are great to read but when I go to play in them. they are like straight-jackets.
There is so much information available for them that I am second checking myself all the time.
Players have access to the information as well and have expectations on the setting that if not met them, they are disappointed.

How do you deal with this??

HappyDaze · March 21, 2021, 05:16:16 PM

Can you give a few examples of what you mean? Is this for licensed (e.g. Star Wars or Star Trek) settings, or more for those made specifically for gaming (like Forgotten Realms)?

Heavy Josh · March 21, 2021, 05:35:24 PM

This is one of the reasons why I don't run Star Wars or Star Trek games, despite loving both universes. There's just too much established canon, and while I'm a big fan, I don't have the details and trivia mastered like so many of my fellow nerds.

In general, when I encounter a setting with lots of details, like say Heavy Gear's Terranova, I try to find a little corner of it that inspires me to campaign, and then build outward from there. I'll absorb the details of the larger game world as I need them.

lordmalachdrim · March 21, 2021, 05:47:06 PM

Everything written up to the date in which the campaign starts is true. Everything after that is subject to change.

This is true for both anything written in real life after we start playing and anything already written but with a latter date in the settings timeline.

HappyDaze · March 21, 2021, 05:54:05 PM

Quote from: lordmalachdrim on March 21, 2021, 05:47:06 PM
Everything written up to the date in which the campaign starts is true. Everything after that is subject to change.

This is true for both anything written in real life after we start playing and anything already written but with a latter date in the settings timeline.

Does the first part have any limits? Some settings have so much stuff that it's hard to be sure you've got it all. And some have retcons (and retcons of retcons) and "alternate versions" that conflict (sometimes addressed and clarified, sometimes not).

Greentongue · March 21, 2021, 06:05:23 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 21, 2021, 05:16:16 PM
Can you give a few examples of what you mean? Is this for licensed (e.g. Star Wars or Star Trek) settings, or more for those made specifically for gaming (like Forgotten Realms)?

A few examples I can think of, Empire of the Petal Throne, Hellfrost the official Traveller universe.
Obviously, Forgotten Realms has the same issue.

Quote from: lordmalachdrim on March 21, 2021, 05:47:06 PM
Everything written up to the date in which the campaign starts is true. Everything after that is subject to change.

This is true for both anything written in real life after we start playing and anything already written but with a latter date in the settings timeline.

That doesn't solve much when the existing "anything written in real life" is all encompassing.

Visitor Q · March 21, 2021, 06:09:57 PM

Quote from: Greentongue on March 21, 2021, 05:11:42 PM
There are a number of settings that are great to read but when I go to play in them. they are like straight-jackets.
There is so much information available for them that I am second checking myself all the time.
Players have access to the information as well and have expectations on the setting that if not met them, they are disappointed.

How do you deal with this??

In general this is most easily dealt with by speaking to the players about what parts of the setting are important to them but also set expectations as to what is open to change.

Also don't be afraid of simply making it clear that it is an alternative setting and details may change. L5R for example has a lot of metaplot background stuff but every campaign I've played in as a PC or GMd has been quite divergent from the official material. The GM has just given an overview of what is in the game and what isn't (to the extent that entire plots, factions and wars have been hand waved away). It has never been a problem.

Greentongue · March 21, 2021, 06:11:51 PM

I'm really trying to justify not using some of the methods where the players help generate the setting from their character building input.
Like "Beyond the Wall and Other Adventures" or "Through Sunken Lands".
I'm sure other games have this, or there should be.

Shasarak · March 21, 2021, 07:21:07 PM

Quote from: Greentongue on March 21, 2021, 05:11:42 PM
How do you deal with this??

Have you tried to co op the player with the most setting knowledge?

Mine their knowledge as your own personal wiki of the setting that way you never have to worry about forgetting the name of the King of X country again.

S'mon · March 21, 2021, 07:30:32 PM

"This is a non canon campaign."

Setting info is a resource for me to use or not, not a restriction. These days I always go out of my way to make setting changes early on, to establish this is not the official version of the setting. Eg in my Damara 1359 DR campaign, the bad guy Dimian Ree was elected King by the Council of Nobles, not good guy Gareth Dragonsbane as per official Forgotten Realms.

Ratman_tf · March 21, 2021, 07:50:32 PM

Quote from: S'mon on March 21, 2021, 07:30:32 PM
"This is a non canon campaign."

Even the various editions that explain the seperate Prime Material Planes mentions that there are an infinite number of Greyhawks, Torils, Athas-es, etc.

As a player, I do not mind if the GM get's some picky lore bit about an established setting "wrong".

As a GM, I does my best to know the setting as well as possible. But here's another thing, My Dark Sun is intentionally different from the published one. I disgregard all the lore after Kalak's death, and have made up some of my own lore about the past. It's stuff most players will likely never encounter, and it was very gratifying to see the 4th edition version of Dark Sun took a similar tact.

Steven Mitchell · March 21, 2021, 10:32:14 PM

Mainly, I don't play such settings. I may grab an idea or three for my own settings, but usually that's about the limit. On those rare occasions when I do use such a setting, I'm very minimalist with it. The last Forgotten Realms campaign I ran used the 1st ed. Hardback and a handful of paragraphs and maps from a few 2nd ed. products. I bought the 3rd ed. version. Doubt I used more than 2 or 3 pages out of it, and certainly never cracked the book again after a couple of straight read-throughs.

Arkansan · March 21, 2021, 10:39:20 PM

Oh that's easy, I just ignore the shit I don't like.

hedgehobbit · March 21, 2021, 11:06:58 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 21, 2021, 07:50:32 PMAs a player, I do not mind if the GM get's some picky lore bit about an established setting "wrong".

From my experience, you are the exception. What I've found is that people that want to play a game in a specific setting are also the same people that want the setting to match the published material. (Otherwise, what is the point?)

I found it easier to just create a new setting that has a similar theme or feel. For example, despite running multiple campaigns set in Glorantha back in the 80s & 90s, the setting has grown so much that I don't have enough knowledge to run a game in that setting today. So I made my own pseudo-ancients campaign complete with my own Roman and Gaul stand-ins.

Pat · March 21, 2021, 11:11:55 PM

If the players are familiar with the setting, I don't use it. I find it's not worth fighting the expectations. If you tell someone you're playing in the Forgotten Realms, and ignore a lot of it, it just leads to frustration among the fans. They don't get to use their hard-earned knowledge of the setting, and everything you change will be compared negatively with the elements you excised. If the players aren't familiar with the setting, that's not a problem. I just pick and choose the elements I like, and run with it.