Another thread brought up a memory of my own interaction with a game company, to try and publish a book for me. That didn't go my way.

Bear in mind, that it was very early in the development of the book. And I was amongst the first to ask DOJ/Hero Games about potentially publishing my book.

At the time, they had no interest in publishing anything based on properties they didn't directly own. But a few years went by, and they published a game based on Monster Hunter International. Guess they changed their minds.

But after my original inquiry, I was on The Big Purple expressing negative opinions based on the Hero System. Opinions I felt that I had a right to express. Since I was a long term customer. And had actually paid real money for the product.

Well, some of the people and moderators there went screaming to the owners of Hero Games. And those owners did their best to come into that thread and try and discredit me and my criticism. Bringing up their prior rejection. Accusing me of having an axe to grind. Which was anything but true. But what it did do was show me how petty and unprofessional those people were.

Years went by. And my fortunes changed. I started my own publishing company. And started putting out prose novels and graphic novels. One of my partners came to me and asked me if I wanted to go back to Hero Games and see if they were interested in publishing that very same world book once again. But I said no. And explained some of my history with Hero Games to show that they and I were just not a good fit.

It turned out that the partner had a personal connection with one of the DOJ/Hero Games owners. One of those self=same owners who attacked and tried to discredit me on TBP all those years ago.

But my main concern? Accessibility. I wanted to base that world book on a game system with far less complication to its character generation. Match the world book with a game that would likely get more new gamers interested in buying my book because the game had the appearance of being more user-friendly. Simple logic, really. I wanted to go for that larger audience when we were to do a world book. Which I feel is a better fit for said potential product.

Do I have an axe to grind with Hero Games? If that were true, why would I have spent decades supporting that company and buying their products? And they absolutely do know who I am. They have taken plenty of my money and directly mailed their products to me.

Disappointed more describes my attitude towards Hero Games. Because they proved to me the old adage, that you never want to meet your heroes.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 02, 2020, 06:28:17 PMDo I have an axe to grind with Hero Games?

Why else would you start this thread?

I have somewhat similar feelings about Steve Jackson games but to be fair.  I've griefed them a lot over the years.  I liked two incarnations of ICE and while I understand why it's what it is now, I can't say I'd ever want to work with them again.

No, it's best to just self publish and do your own thing.  If companies want their games to fall by the wayside and die out, that's their right.

Quote from: David Johansen on November 03, 2020, 09:26:07 AM
I have somewhat similar feelings about Steve Jackson games but to be fair.  I've griefed them a lot over the years.  I liked two incarnations of ICE and while I understand why it's what it is now, I can't say I'd ever want to work with them again.

No, it's best to just self publish and do your own thing.  If companies want their games to fall by the wayside and die out, that's their right.

Hero Games could have had a multiverse of superhero settings by now. If they had not gone complete tunnel vision. A setting for every taste and style of superhero comics. They could have served their audience a grand buffet. Rather than obsessing over a singular company setting, they tried to cram every different style into. While serving none of them very well.

I do believe their whole Champions Universe effort was an exercise in failure and mediocrity from the outset. When they could have done oh so much more with what they had.

What do they have instead? An overcrowded, overpopulated superhero setting. Where there is no room for PCs to be the stars of the show. Which is doubly reinforced by the Champions Online MMO. New supers in that setting don't feel special or significant at all.

Quote from: Bren on November 03, 2020, 01:21:07 AM
Why else would you start this thread?

Agreed and seconded. Hopefully the OP this time around wants to engage with opposing viewpoints. As the OP has a history of wanting echo chambers when he starts these type of threads.

I even agree with him on the Champions Universe being overcrowded. It's like Hero Games had to fit everything and anything into the Champions setting. Where it would have been better off being separate.

The reality is that the owners of the game company have total control and fans and freelancers have very little input.

It's a bit sad.  The market is overpopulated and most people aren't looking for yet another system.  Worse still, there's usually a system you like but can't really do what you want with because you don't own it.  Nor is there much hope for some kind of a grassroots alternative movement under a single system.  The OSR comes close but has spawned a million variants rather than a single standard that people use.  Cephus Engine might be the sort of thing that's needed. 

HERO Games now offers a Content Creator program at DTRPG called Hall of Champions. You can publish whatever you want for HoC, and Hero won't claim any ownership of your IP. If you really like the HERO RPG, you can support the fan base with whatever products you believe will fly. No need to wait for permission...

I have a nice Discord going with over 400 fans chatting and planning games. For those interested, here's the link --> https://discord.gg/HcUJvJH

That's great.  Good on Hero Games for entering the new millennium.

Quote from: trechriron on November 04, 2020, 02:21:22 AM
HERO Games now offers a Content Creator program at DTRPG called Hall of Champions. You can publish whatever you want for HoC, and Hero won't claim any ownership of your IP. If you really like the HERO RPG, you can support the fan base with whatever products you believe will fly. No need to wait for permission...

I have a nice Discord going with over 400 fans chatting and planning games. For those interested, here's the link --> https://discord.gg/HcUJvJH

I'm on that Discord. I just don't log into Discord often.

I honestly checked out the content creator program Hero Games now offers. But it's not for me. The size of 6th edition Champions writeups are a big concern. The fact the average is multiple pages long causes space concerns for how much other content I can put in the book

The other system I favor can have character sheets as small as a half a page.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 04, 2020, 02:11:19 PM
I honestly checked out the content creator program Hero Games now offers. But it's not for me. The size of 6th edition Champions writeups are a big concern. The fact the average is multiple pages long causes space concerns for how much other content I can put in the book

  I doubt it will make a difference, but the license is open to all Hero Games, from Champions 1E up through Hero 5ER and 6E.

Quote from: sureshot on November 03, 2020, 10:07:52 AM

Quote from: Bren on November 03, 2020, 01:21:07 AM
Why else would you start this thread?

Agreed and seconded. Hopefully the OP this time around wants to engage with opposing viewpoints. As the OP has a history of wanting echo chambers when he starts these type of threads.

I even agree with him on the Champions Universe being overcrowded. It's like Hero Games had to fit everything and anything into the Champions setting. Where it would have been better off being separate.

Thirded... Seriously, if your ideas for superheroes were the thing that would have made them super popular, why is it that you haven't done that without Hero? Are they really the reason for your lack of success? And if not, why do you keep chewing on the same old gristle? Seems you've latched onto what they are doing or not doing as a way to avoid confronting what you are doing or not doing. To pretend you don't have an axe to grind is cognitive dissonance worth at least 15 disadvantage points. Jesus man, let it go.

Quote from: trechriron on November 04, 2020, 02:21:22 AM
HERO Games now offers a Content Creator program at DTRPG called Hall of Champions.

This Hall of Champions thing has been live for about a year and this is the first I've heard of it. Although trying to dig through DTRPG reminds me of just how nightmarish DTRPG's UI is. I was surprised to find that Hero Game released some clip art packs for use in people's Hall of Champions products.

Now if Hero just had a simplified version of the game for use in non-supers games. The core mechanics are decent enough for any sort of game.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on November 04, 2020, 02:27:48 PM
I doubt it will make a difference, but the license is open to all Hero Games, from Champions 1E up through Hero 5ER and 6E.

Unfortunately for both the Hero system and Hero Games too little too late imo. Something like thins should have been implemented as soon as the announced that HG would be cutting back on their publishing schedule. To make matter worse it took years for the POD for the Hero System 6E core and other out of print 6E books to be implmented. If one liked PDFs then one was in luck for those who prefer print it was impossible to even purchase the core.

Hopefully HG version of the OGL helps them yet I am not sure if it will. Imo most fans of the system prefer 4E with 5E and 6E after. I don't see a huge demand for 1E-3E HS material.

Quote from: shuddemell on November 07, 2020, 10:37:44 AM
Thirded... Seriously, if your ideas for superheroes were the thing that would have made them super popular, why is it that you haven't done that without Hero? Are they really the reason for your lack of success? And if not, why do you keep chewing on the same old gristle? Seems you've latched onto what they are doing or not doing as a way to avoid confronting what you are doing or not doing. To pretend you don't have an axe to grind is cognitive dissonance worth at least 15 disadvantage points. Jesus man, let it go.

The OP is allowed to feel how he feels about Hero Games and the Hero System.

The bullshit about not having an axe to grind and the pretend lack of awareness and trying to come off like his very first post on the topic is again pure bullshit.

He has an Axe to grind mostly with certain types of players who use the Hero system and blames parts of the Hero System because of it. I disagree with the OP respect his feeling on that. At the same time be honest about how he feels. He not only has an axe to grind he has cut down two forest worth of timber with it.

Quote from: sureshot on November 07, 2020, 11:16:46 AM

Quote from: shuddemell on November 07, 2020, 10:37:44 AM
Thirded... Seriously, if your ideas for superheroes were the thing that would have made them super popular, why is it that you haven't done that without Hero? Are they really the reason for your lack of success? And if not, why do you keep chewing on the same old gristle? Seems you've latched onto what they are doing or not doing as a way to avoid confronting what you are doing or not doing. To pretend you don't have an axe to grind is cognitive dissonance worth at least 15 disadvantage points. Jesus man, let it go.

The OP is allowed to feel how he feels about Hero Games and the Hero System.

The bullshit about not having an axe to grind and the pretend lack of awareness and trying to come off like his very first post on the topic is again pure bullshit.

He has an Axe to grind mostly with certain types of players who use the Hero system and blames parts of the Hero System because of it. I disagree with the OP respect his feeling on that. At the same time be honest about how he feels. He not only has an axe to grind he has cut down two forest worth of timber with it.

Of course he is allowed to feel about it how he wishes, but by making it a public outcry, we are allowed to comment on it as we wish. Does he really think at this point, that everyone on this board is unaware of exactly how he thinks and how many whetstones he's gone through grinding that axe? Must this pathetic whack-a-mole keep raising it's head? It speaks to me of mental issues that may need some professional counseling to solve... Where exactly did the bad old Hero System touch you Darrin?