It's been on my mind a lot, here lately.

Does my mix of BoL + OSR no classes totally not Conan game counts?

Yes I have, it's still untested but I'm working on it, instead of classes I got several backgrounds that make your character and that give it it's abilities.

Quote from: Razor 007;1136582It's been on my mind a lot, here lately.

Are you talking about things like Runequest?

Quote from: Razor 007;1136582It's been on my mind a lot, here lately.

Yes. Especially in Mongoose Traveller where there are no classes. Some would argue that it has classes though.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1136606Are you talking about things like Runequest?

I had no particular rule set in mind; just the concept of playing anything, based off those 6 Ability Scores.

It's almost an uncontrollably urge to want to change the six D&D ability scores when playing any D&D game after AD&D 1E or BECMI.  And a little tempting in BECMI.  So the last thing I'm going to do is use the traditional six in another system.  

I rather like having Power and Size in Runequest.

Quote from: Razor 007;1136615I had no particular rule set in mind; just the concept of playing anything, based off those 6 Ability Scores.

You mean like playing a game using ONLY the "6 Ability Scores" (assuming D&D here), with NO other abilities? Or just build off of those abilities, but without classes? Like a skill-based system, using D&D scores specifically? Cuz I've tried Attribute + Skill systems, but usually I tend to deviate at least somewhat from D&D attributes when making homebrews for a variety of reasons. And most skill based systems tend to have different attributes than D&D, even if they're essentially equivalent. But I could see a skill-based system based entirely out of D&D ability scores, kinda the way that 5e handles all ability checks through Proficiencies now, but ditching classes entirely and handling everything by using skills.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1136619You mean like playing a game using ONLY the "6 Ability Scores" (assuming D&D here), with NO other abilities? Or just build off of those abilities, but without classes? Like a skill-based system, using D&D scores specifically? Cuz I've tried Attribute + Skill systems, but usually I tend to deviate at least somewhat from D&D attributes when making homebrews for a variety of reasons. And most skill based systems tend to have different attributes than D&D, even if they're essentially equivalent. But I could see a skill-based system based entirely out of D&D ability scores, kinda the way that 5e handles all ability checks through Proficiencies now, but ditching classes entirely and handling everything by using skills.

Only the 6.  Or maybe plus Skills.  Just exploring what others think about it.  Sit down with a group and tell them we can play anything.  Arrange this stat array to taste, and let's go!!!

My friend Bob created a classless WW2 RPG which used the six D&D Attributes, AFAICR. It was basically still D&D but there was some clever stuff with the phased combat system which combined squad level 15 second rounds with 3.75 second individual phases. This was in the early '90s before many people had heard of Boyd and the OODA loop.

Quote from: Razor 007;1136621Only the 6.  Or maybe plus Skills.  Just exploring what others think about it.  Sit down with a group and tell them we can play anything.  Arrange this stat array to taste, and let's go!!!

Well, maybe not just the six, per se. But I've considered the possibility of making a super simplified system that's basically just the attributes, plus a handful of perks and flaws that give you extra bonuses and limitations, and special features and such. Some of those perks might be "skills" or similar functions (like chosen enemies or terrain) but just give you a flat one time bonus (like +2), others could be extra HP, special attacks (natural weapons, knockdown, fire bolts, etc.) or racial features (like Darkvision), etc.

But everything's pretty much handled through the ability scores for purposes of ability checks and figuring stuff like HP and such. Though, you could just make damage a saving throw vs a DC based on damage level, and every time you fail you stack a "wound" till you die. Then you don't even need HP (the HP perk could just be a bonus to Con checks to resist damage). The level of stuff like special attacks or spells could be based on a key ability score as well, so you don't even need to track individual power levels. You just need the perk that grants you the ability and its key ability score to determine how powerful it is.

Um... theres alot of RPGs that use variations on the six abilities but are classless.
GammaWorld and Metamorphosis Alpha come to mind right off.
Shadowrun is another. It has some archetype examples. But you can freeform chargen.
Gurps comes to mind. Using 3 of the 6 stats.
Mercenaries Spies & Private Eyes uses the standard stat format but has no classes.
Pretty much all the WOD games are another.
Technically maybe Call of Cthulhu as it has professions, which can act as classes in other RPGs but in CoC do not really. (Least not in the edition I have)

And many more.

The 6 Abilities have been used to cover a lot of bases in D&D.  

I have had to say "No" before during a D&D game, because something didn't fit into My concept of medieval European fantasy; but I could have very easily handled the mechanics of it, with the 6 abilities and a d20 roll.  

My settings have been limited to my concept of D&D, but I believe I could easily run a game of a different genre with the same 6 abilities (plus maybe 2 or 3 more I guess).  I'd like to offer the option of running "anything", sometimes; and see what happens.

What other abilities or attributes would you recommend that I consider?

I have thought of possibly adding Luck, and Appearance.

My favourite attribute system is Mini Six, which has four - Might (STR & CON), Agility (DEX), Wit (INT & WIS) and Charm (Charisma), with stuff like Attractive bought as perks. I definitely prefer STR & CON as a single attribute. I'd like a Perception attribute, and probably a Willpower attribute, though that can be included in Charm at a stretch. I don't like Wisdom as an attribute, it only seems to exist because of the Cleric class and 5e has overloaded it with the kind of stuff Thieves ought to be good at.

Quote from: Razor 007;1136632The 6 Abilities have been used to cover a lot of bases in D&D.  

I have had to say "No" before during a D&D game, because something didn't fit into My concept of medieval European fantasy; but I could have very easily handled the mechanics of it, with the 6 abilities and a d20 roll.  

My settings have been limited to my concept of D&D, but I believe I could easily run a game of a different genre with the same 6 abilities (plus maybe 2 or 3 more I guess).  I'd like to offer the option of running "anything", sometimes; and see what happens.

What other abilities or attributes would you recommend that I consider?

I have thought of possibly adding Luck, and Appearance.

IMO, you don't really need any attributes beyond the 6. If anything, you could reduce the 6 to just 4, focusing on physical and mental speed and power, by folding STR and CON into a single Physical Power ability (call it Might, Fitness or similar), INT and WIS (sans willpower elements) into a single Mental Speed ability (call it Awareness, Wits or similar), and WIS/willpower and CHA into a single Mental Power ability (call it Presence, Bearing or similar), then DEX remains a single ability but gets melee accuracy as well. Something like Might, Dexterity, Wits and Presence is really all you need. Anything else tends to be superfluous or lags behind.

Systems that move beyond the 6 to add more attributes tend to include a lot of unnecessary abilities that don't really need to be framed as attributes. Like Attractiveness, which is really just a perk that simply modifies interaction rolls (based on whatever "social" attribute you already have in the game), or Movement, which works better as a static base value that could maybe get modified by certain perks or special abilities (kinda how its handled in D&D) rather than devoting an ENTIRE attribute to the idea that some people kinda sorta walk somewhat faster than others. I also disagree with adding Perception as an attribute because, even if you want to argue that its technically a "natural" ability that can't or doesn't need to be developed through training (which I disagree TBH), that's still too specialized to have an ENTIRE attribute devoted to the idea that you can spot stuff. Its better to just handle that as a skill based on whatever "mental agility" attribute exists in your game than screw people over by making them choose between a real attribute and spotting hidden enemies.

Granted, you could try to turn a "Perception" attribute into a more general ability by giving it ranged accuracy as well, but then that complicates things by splitting DEX into a agility and coordination attribute and making people choose between dodging things and spotting/shooting things, when technically speaking you need to be kinda good at spotting things in order to dodge them effectively. I'd rather just have one universal "physical speed" attribute (DEX in D&D) that covers all that, then handle specifics like dodging, spotting and shooting through skills.

Quote from: S'mon;1136649My favourite attribute system is Mini Six, which has four - Might (STR & CON), Agility (DEX), Wit (INT & WIS) and Charm (Charisma), with stuff like Attractive bought as perks. I definitely prefer STR & CON as a single attribute. I'd like a Perception attribute, and probably a Willpower attribute, though that can be included in Charm at a stretch. I don't like Wisdom as an attribute, it only seems to exist because of the Cleric class and 5e has overloaded it with the kind of stuff Thieves ought to be good at.

Perception as a separate attribute, is a fine idea.