Quote from: Arkansan;1134395At this point I'm so checked out of official D&D I don't really give a rat's ass what they do with it. 5e has been a significant disappointment to me in many other ways than the political pandering (namely the Paizoesque adventure path model).

I've got OSR stuff to provide me with all the D&D I want, just the way I want it.

   You bring up a great point.  I do not understand the huge book module/adventure/campaigns.   It seems more an attempt to write a pick your path book than create an adventure.   An adventure, a real one, is dangerous.  Those seem just dangerous enough to ensure the players level up to keep going with the novel than to create an adventure.  I think much shorter modules, that have some risk, could be connected, or not would appeal to me more.  Maybe create a compilation once you have 3 or 4 good modules connected.

It's only going to get worse.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1134353And yet in the OD&D book it says Law=Good and Chaos=Evil, in more words but that's the gist of it.

Yeah, but the "more words" portion is more like that they can typically be considered good or evil, but don't necessarily have to be. And include some notes about how you have to decide if your "chaotic" character is a "happy-go-lucky" type or an actual evil bastard. Though, the association with Law=Good and Chaos=Evil is made.

Quote from: Omega;1134368Nope. There was an earlier iteration of the moral outrage brigade claiming that Drow = Black people. So they changed it. That is why some of us were going "god not this again" when it was trotted out yet again.

A lot of early art had dark elves depicted as brown skinned, like black people. I used to portray them as such in my campaigns and described my main (dark elf) character as having "milk chocolate" colored skin. When I recreated her in Neverwinter Nights and played her PW/RP servers people would sometimes give me crap about how "dark elves are smurfs, not brownies". But she was always a brownie so I kept her brown.

If different RPG races are clearly genetically/biologically distinct, didn't that implicitly reinforce our shared humanity regardless of our skin color?

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1134414If different RPG races are clearly genetically/biologically distinct, didn't that implicitly reinforce our shared humanity regardless of our skin color?

  Well, I guess the intelligence debuff maybe reinforces the idea that intelligence is in any way attributed to genetics.  Every educated person knows there is zero genetic effect on intelligence and that implication of any thing else is going to lead to problematic and scientifically false conclusions.
  But they did leave the elves as having an intelligence buff.....problematic?  Not sure.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134415Well, I guess the intelligence debuff maybe reinforces the idea that intelligence is in any way attributed to genetics.  Every educated person knows there is zero genetic effect on intelligence and that implication of any thing else is going to lead to problematic and scientifically false conclusions.
  But they did leave the elves as having an intelligence buff.....problematic?  Not sure.

Personally, I would hope that traditional elves in particular would be both smarter and wiser than me. I don't know why I would hope that other beings are just as stupid and foolish as I am, especially ones with long lifespans and/or supernatural aspects.

You would think living in your prime for hundreds of years you would pick up a few things.. I guess that is a way to make them smarter without saying they are born smarter.  BUT the logical extrapolation from that is they must all be lazy fucks.  Otherwise they would the absolute masters of magic, sword fighting, strategy, anything that takes a bit of time to master.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134418You would think living in your prime for hundreds of years you would pick up a few things.. I guess that is a way to make them smarter without saying they are born smarter.  BUT the logical extrapolation from that is they must all be lazy fucks.  Otherwise they would the absolute masters of magic, sword fighting, strategy, anything that takes a bit of time to master.

Maybe, although adventurers tend to start out on the young side, that whole hero's journey thing. Your dude ends up as Elrond, he has to adventure to get there (to be Tolkienian, again). But "young" by elven standards is still old by human standards, so hopefully they've still had some time to improve themselves.

Yeah, like old enough to be absolute technical masters of their fields.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134415Well, I guess the intelligence debuff maybe reinforces the idea that intelligence is in any way attributed to genetics.  Every educated person knows there is zero genetic effect on intelligence and that implication of any thing else is going to lead to problematic and scientifically false conclusions.
  But they did leave the elves as having an intelligence buff.....problematic?  Not sure.

I hope you're joking, scientific research has proven there's a hereditary element of intelligence time and time again. Which doesn't mean epigenetics don't play a role, since they do; for instance malnutrition of the mother during pregnancy or childhood malnutrition will result on less healthy/intelligent people.

Which also doesn't mean it's certainly racial nor that it isn't; much less that we should make laws discriminating on the basis of race.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1134421I hope you're joking, scientific research has proven there's a hereditary element of intelligence time and time again. Which doesn't mean epigenetics don't play a role, since they do; for instance malnutrition of the mother during pregnancy or childhood malnutrition will result on less healthy/intelligent people.

Which also doesn't mean it's certainly racial nor that it isn't; much less that we should make laws discriminating on the basis of race.

  Joking?  Every geneticist worth their salt knows evolution and differences are only up to the upper neck area.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134420Yeah, like old enough to be absolute technical masters of their fields.

I see your point. Well, I guess Tolkienian elves are arguably "lazy": song and art and nature being significant parts of their study. Maybe that's a backstory for an adventuring elf -- too ambitious to stand all the long nights of song and wine and food, had to party up with some humans to go Get Shit Done.

And even that is debatable, as everyone, everywhere, knows full well you can do anything you really want to do, just by wanting to do it a whole lot and working very hard.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1134423I see your point. Well, I guess Tolkienian elves are arguably "lazy": song and art and nature being significant parts of their study. Maybe that's a backstory for an adventuring elf -- too ambitious to stand all the long nights of song and wine and food, had to party up with some humans to go Get Shit Done.

  people always leave out the debauchery.  Wine, music and orgies all the time.   I guess the adventurer types break away from this.

Quote from: oggsmash;1134425people always leave out the debauchery.  Wine, music and orgies all the time.   I guess the adventurer types break away from this.

I love the Dragon Quest take on this aspect of elves:  They have a frivolous side that is there to deal with the vast weight of the years on their psyche.  Basically, never mind seeing other beings come and go.  When you've seen yet another civilization rise and fall, all an elf can do is go get drunk and party--maybe for a few decades. Having been to a lot of parties, they've mastered that, too.