I'm familiar with JAGS supplements, though I've never deigned to try using the JAGS rules due to a combination of poor layout and numerous typographic errors. That said, the new Revised version of JAGS looks like it has been very cleaned up (though, in places, text box and table layout issues seem to persist).

Well, as many of you know, I'd planned on investing in a generic rule set this pay period (and, in fact, I'd already laid down a chunk of cash on six GURPS 4e books). As fate would have it, my credit/debit card was stolen last night and, thus, I had to cancel that GURPS order (as Amazon wouldn't have been able to charge the purchase to the stolen card).

This morning I had initially planned to pick up my temporary card and and re-charge the GURPS order, though I ended up cruising Lulu for a few minutes first. And I came across the JAGS Revised hardcover. Now, I love C-13 despite the layout issues, and so I decided that it might be time to give the rules a chance. . .

I snagged a softcover copy of the JAGS Revised book, as well as a hardcover copy.

Now, just to be clear, I didn't up and decide to buy these books based solely on my love of C-13 (though that was part of the process). JAGS also gives me things that GURPS and Rolemaster can't (namely a comprehensive generic system under one cover), as well as things that HERO can't (comparable detail with less fiddly math).

That said, I've never actually played JAGS (nor have I read the Revised edition PDF from front to back yet). So. . . for those more familiar with the Revised version of JAGS, what are its high points and its low points? What kind of things does it model very well and where does the system tends to falter and/or break down (e.g., GURPS doesn't do supers very well)?

Thanks in advance for any advice or insight that you may offer!

QuoteJAGS also gives me things that GURPS and Rolemaster can't (namely a comprehensive generic system under one cover)

I wouldn't say that.  GURPS 4 is a lot more comprehensive than 3rd edition, while JAGS seems to be more about like 3rd Edition in terms of what it includes, if not less.

Quote from: J ArcaneGURPS 4 is a lot more comprehensive than 3rd edition. . .

Oh, I know. It isn't contained under one cover, though.

Quotewhile JAGS seems to be more about like 3rd Edition in terms of what it includes, if not less.

I know that this was true of JAGS-2 (the 'light' version of JAGS, which very much like the GURPS 3e Basic Set in terms of content), though I've heard that JAGS Revised added several things and is a much more complete system 'out of the box'.

That said. . . I can't say for myself, as I had to buy new glasses on Thursday, so I'm not quite up to reading PDF on-screen just yet (they make my eyes burn right now). Which, I guess, is pretty much why

JAGS Revised is the core system. In order to have magic, psi powers, etc. You'll need those PDFs or wait until the Revised Archetypes book comes out (aiming for November).

In terms of rules:

1. All rolls in JAGS are 4d6 with six's treated as zero (you can do 4d6-4 if you need to use a dice-roller or just prefer it).

2. It's a skills/stats/traits roll-under system (similar to GURPS or Hero).
(a) Stats have three basic stats and then three under each of them--which are only remarked on if you change them.
(b) skills have both a roll (as per GURPS/Hero) and a Level (beginner, professional, expert, master). The level determines what general things you can do with it. The roll is your chance of success.

3. Combat involves a to-hit roll (skill or stat) modified by the target's Reflexes score. It uses an action-point system.
(a) What you hit by is added to your damage roll. This yields a "damage multiplier" for your weapon (a 9mm does 6pts base damage. A good shot with it will yield, say, 9-12 damage after the modifier).
(b) Wounds come in terms of number of points of damage--but there are break-points. If a character with 10 Damage Points takes a 10-19pt wound they must roll on the Major Wound table. If they take 20+pts in one hit, the Critical Wound table. 50+pts, and they're dead.
(c) There's a grappling system as well as some mechanics for movement.

4. JAGS Revised introduces a system called "Drama Rolls"--these are rules used to resolve complex non-combat situations where you want to get into a 'combat-like' resolution. There are examples of applying this to court-room dramas, cyber-hacking, racing, etc.
(a) Instead of one roll, there are usually 3 or more.
(b) Between each roll, the characters can take specific actions (like "Take Additional Risk" or "Block other Party", etc.) These are generic but can be tailored to the specific kind of situation.

There's a lot more--but that's the basics. Thanks for checking it out. Revised Archetypes will have comprehensive rules for:
1. Mutants/Biological powers and characters from the size of a small dog to an elephant.
2. Cyborgs
3. Chi fighters (street-fighter style characters)
4. Psionics
5. Magic
6. Some other stuff (fantasy races, maybe robots, etc).

There is a supers supplement and we have another supers book on deck.

-Marco

Okay, so I'll need some PDFs for official lists and/or systems of magic and powers -- can I build my own spells and/or powers using the core rules (like you can with the GURPS Basic Set or HERO FRED core book)?

With respect to the initial Jags release . . . it was just okay for me. Then came Jags 2 (the lite version of Jags) and it stimulated my interest. Jags Revised is a quantum leap from Jags 2. It carries a similar voice to the one adopted in Jags Wonderland, is an easy read, and covers all the bases. It is a very complete rule set.

Well, I submitted copies of Magicians, Magic 1.0, Fantasy, Monsters, and Treasure to the local copy shop via their internet upload site. I plan to get all of these printed and coil bound into one large book. Now, that said. . .

I've seen elsewhere that you only need to add 12 to the grapple scores of all monsters in order to update them to JAGS Revised. What rules in the other four documents work differently now? I think I read that there were some changes in how Magicians function (though I can't recall with certainty).

Lend me a hand?

Hmmm, Firefox does not turn the download link into a pdf viewing, nor does IE. "Save link as" does nothing useful.

Is it possible to make the free downloads into actual pdf links, or...?

Quote from: jdrakehWell, I submitted copies of Magicians, Magic 1.0, Fantasy, Monsters, and Treasure to the local copy shop via their internet upload site. I plan to get all of these printed and coil bound into one large book. Now, that said. . .

I've seen elsewhere that you only need to add 12 to the grapple scores of all monsters in order to update them to JAGS Revised. What rules in the other four documents work differently now? I think I read that there were some changes in how Magicians function (though I can't recall with certainty).

Lend me a hand?

In Archetypes Revised there will be substantial changes as to how you *create* a magician--but the spells will still function as printed (minor revisions/corrections aside). The Grapple scores were the big mechanical change (that and auto-fire). Both of these are easily converted using the Revised rules.

JAGS is not exactly a "build your own" system. There is some work on a JAGS-Foundation-Classes document (based on the joke that a lot of us have done Java) which would be the basis for making up abilities (after all, if we didn't have those notes we wouldn't be able to balance the stuff we've got).

However: JAGS is not a generic tool-kit in the same way, say, Hero is (and a good thing too: Hero is really, really good at what it does). However, it is trying to be very complete and have an interesting amount of depth (i.e. there are many ways to make different cyborgs, two telepaths can have widely different abilities, and mutants can be built with lots of different creation strategies which should produced at least fairly balanced characters).

As to the links: I'll see what we can do--I want to be able to track downloads and that's what the software does with that javascript redirect.

-Marco