FYI - I just re-watched the World of Darkness documentary and it gave some concrete numbers.

6,900,000 White Wolf books of every line was what was sold from 1st Edition to the Chronicles of Darkness, over the course of about twelve years.

The most successful sales number for any single game product in a year was Vampire: The Requiem. It sold 100,000 copies in 2004.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1131032That is why your a fucking filthy zeev.

...

As long you are a moderator you will suck the shit out of Rich Thomas ass and brag about WoD like a little thoughtless hoe.
People like you are bad for the hobby and need to get kicked out.

Sheesh! You know who's not like this? Street Fighter fans! You need to stat up a Ninja with the Cybernetics Unique Background called Cyber-Musashi Prime and kick a fight promoter's ass when he stiffs you on the fight money, then chill with a nice pizza party and some Mt. Dew while playing some King of Fighters on the couch with your buds.

Quote from: NeonAce;1131059Sheesh! You know who's not like this? Street Fighter fans! You need to stat up a Ninja with the Cybernetics Unique Background called Cyber-Musashi Prime and kick a fight promoter's ass when he stiffs you on the fight money, then chill with a nice pizza party and some Mt. Dew while playing some King of Fighters on the couch with your buds.

Oddly enough I actually loved this game. My only complaints about it were the fact that the World Warriors were so incredibly overleveled you could never fight any of them.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131062Oddly enough I actually loved this game. My only complaints about it were the fact that the World Warriors were so incredibly overleveled you could never fight any of them.

Yeah, the World Warriors, if you try to work out how many XP they are built out of, are like 600-1200 XP, heh. Still, if you focus on getting your Health up to 20 and choose the right Special Maneuvers you can get competitive with them. Get yourself a nice combo like "Block to Knee Basher", etc. None of the World Warriors in the book are fast grapplers, which can be a solid type of fighter to make.

As for the WoD games, I liked 1e/early 2e Vampire just fine. I'd still play me some Vampire in the "there is no metaplot" mode of any edition if my local group were willing to play it straight-faced enough. Being a '90s guy, all those games were part of my '90s RPing to greater or lesser extents. I had a slight preference for the commonly derided "I'm tormented" mode over the Katanas & Trenchcoats mode, just because you already can hack shit up in every RPG ever and so it was a nice change of pace to try to inject a bit of that in there.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131058FYI - I just re-watched the World of Darkness documentary and it gave some concrete numbers.

6,900,000 White Wolf books of every line was what was sold from 1st Edition to the Chronicles of Darkness, over the course of about twelve years.

The most successful sales number for any single game product in a year was Vampire: The Requiem. It sold 100,000 copies in 2004.

I believe in it's heyday Masquerade was tier A on par with D&D in the 90's. Then it became tier B in the early 00's with some Ennies for Requiem, Awakening, Hunter the Vigil and Changeling the Lost. This was also the period with a lot of edition wars between oWoD and nWoD fans. Roughly between 2004 and 2008/2009/2010. After that it seemed as people were no longer that pissed off about nWoD, but they simply stopped caring about it. And I think it was no longer tier B: a subtopper just after the big boys (D&D, Pathfinder, Numenera, Cthulhu, Fate, Warhammer, Kult) but it became tier C: a niche market. The 2nd edition of CoD was catering to the hardcore fans and not to a broader audience, V5 scores out of nostalgia and the video game was a cult hit, because it was an anti-grind rpg and had a good story and dialogue. All in all it still has it's share of fans but not anywhere near it's heyday, where it was a cultural phenomenon just like Magic the Gathering. A lot of people played it who would otherwise not play anything like this.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131031Most of this is due to competition with video games. Console games, PC games, flash games, etc. That competition has only gotten worse with the rise of mobile games in the late 2000s.

Most people aware of World of Darkness only know of it through the VTM video games, and most of those people aren't invested in the IP as a whole. They aren't going to buy and play the tabletop. They aren't going to read the lore and learn about, for example, Saulot's secret war with [Tzimisce].

People often say this, but is it true? Roleplaying is and has always been niche. I don't think all those people playing videogames (or even a significant portion) would be playing rpg's if videogames didn't excist. I think if videogames would cease to excist that fewer than 1% of the videogamers would start playing roleplaying games.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;1131082I believe in it's heyday Masquerade was tier A on par with D&D in the 90's. Then it became tier B in the early 00's with some Ennies for Requiem, Awakening, Hunter the Vigil and Changeling the Lost. This was also the period with a lot of edition wars between oWoD and nWoD fans. Roughly between 2004 and 2008/2009/2010. After that it seemed as people were no longer that pissed off about nWoD, but they simply stopped caring about it. And I think it was no longer tier B: a subtopper just after the big boys (D&D, Pathfinder, Numenera, Cthulhu, Fate, Warhammer, Kult) but it became tier C: a niche market. The 2nd edition of CoD was catering to the hardcore fans and not to a broader audience, V5 scores out of nostalgia and the video game was a cult hit, because it was an anti-grind rpg and had a good story and dialogue. All in all it still has it's share of fans but not anywhere near it's heyday, where it was a cultural phenomenon just like Magic the Gathering. A lot of people played it who would otherwise not play anything like this.

Yeah,

My argument is not that it's as popular in the United States as it used to be. It's more that it has expanded internationally to more than before and also has moved into multiple different markets rather than stick purely within a single line of tabletop gaming. Paradox Interactive doesn't really want to make tabletop games I don't think but seems focused instead on growing the IP with the tabletop games as a setting bible.

In addition to the mobile games and visual novels, after Bloodlines 2, there's going to be:

* Earthblood: The 2021 Werewolf: The Apocalypse game.

* Swansong: A 2021 Telltale Episodic game about the Convention of Prague.
https://www.pcgamer.com/vampire-the-masqueradeswansong-is-a-new-rpg-from-the-developers-of-the-council/

Maybe these games will bomb huge like the MMORPG that helped kill the property or maybe it will be a success.

Quote from: jan paparazzi;1131085People often say this, but is it true? Roleplaying is and has always been niche. I don't think all those people playing videogames (or even a significant portion) would be playing rpg's if videogames didn't excist. I think if videogames would cease to excist that fewer than 1% of the videogamers would start playing roleplaying games.

If you have the money, you can do both but I think a lot of tabletop gamers have gone onto video game RPGs more with their spare time.

What do I see you doing? Shilling for Onyx Path. Acting as an apologist for them at every point. And I personally find that disgusting.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1131090What do I see you doing? Shilling for Onyx Path. Acting as an apologist for them at every point. And I personally find that disgusting.

Shits given: 0

Quote from: CTPhipps;1131092Shits given: 0

Shills tend not to. After all, their motivations are usually revealed to be entirely selfish.

I'm not surprised. But rather bored at how blatant about it you were about it.

And onto the Ignore list.

====

But I'll be honest, I wasn't a big fan of the White Wolf V5 books. The Camarilla and The Anarch supplements felt really lacking.

Chicago by Night was awesome.

The Fall of London had its ups and downs but was riddled with typos.

The Chicago Folios was good but also very much a bunch of adventure ideas versus a solid supplement-supplement.

I'm looking forward to Let the Streets Run Red, though.

And there he goes spewing on again with Onyx Path's smegma on his lips...

I'm glad I'm on his ignore list now.

I'm curious what they will do with some of the other game lines with a 5th edition. How could they change Werewolf or Mage? I assume at least those two are going to get 5th edition updates.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1131123I'm curious what they will do with some of the other game lines with a 5th edition. How could they change Werewolf or Mage? I assume at least those two are going to get 5th edition updates.

Werewolf 5 is coming in 2021 to coincide with the release of Werewolf: Earthblood. The game, honestly, looks terrible so I'm not sure that's a great thing. I approve of making as many video games in the property as possible but take a look.

[video=youtube_share;u6uuGf_3k_8]https://youtu.be/u6uuGf_3k_8[/youtube]

At this rate, I suppose we'll hit Changeling 5 around 2040.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1131118And there he goes spewing on again with Onyx Path's smegma on his lips...

I'm glad I'm on his ignore list now.

Wow! That's gross. The cool thing with Street Fighter fans is that they're just out to have a good time. Sure, White Wolf left them after 1 year of supporting the game (or maybe the license just expired...), but then they wrote their own 20th Anniversary edition and translate each others' fan materials between English and Portuguese, because the Brazilians love some Street Fighter. They buy WW or OPP stuff if they like it, or don't if they don't. Here's a character: Ze'ev 'Pop' Levin is from the Israeli Special Forces, and has the Animal Companion background to get a pet wolf (named something like "Scrapper" for that whole "Mutt & Junkyard" G.I. Joe thing). His signature is that he loves Coca-Cola soda pop and pops a can after each match, but he also pops anti-semites & Shadoloo operatives in weird online communities in the nose if they ever show up at his matches making cracks about money & his ethnicity. He also likes to jet ski and wind surfing. Though otherwise tough as nails, contortionists freak him out (yeah, it's not Dhalsim's baby skull necklace that freaks him out, it's the contortion!) Face it. It's a great character!