Quote from: Orphan81;1129621I can't tell you the number of times Wod LARP got me laid. I used to go to Vampire LARPs specifically because it was THE scene to meet girls who were actually interested in roleplaying games. More than a few of my girlfriends in the past came from that scene. WoD was actually considered "Cool" among women as opposed to D&D which was largely considered not.

WoD is largely responsible for bringing women and minorities into Gaming. That is a FACT, it cannot be disputed. There were women and minorities playing before WoD, but WoD is the setting that brought them in with much greater numbers. Particularly the LGBT scene, since they were embracing it from the beginning while D&D was in it's Disney state.

The WoD setting is that glue, that mass appeal that brings people together. A fucking Mage: The Ascension supplement, currently has almost 2K backers on Kickstarter right now. Wod is not "On lifeline".

The setting and the ease of the system is what draws people in. The system makes "Sense" and is easy to grasp for people who are completely new to RPGs, more so than even D&D... Attribute+Skill, rated up to 5 dots each. But the setting with all of it's lore is what draws people in. The different Clans, Tribes, and what have you inspire people and give them something to identify with. No knock off game has ever approached it, ever gotten close to it.

Suffice to say, there has been no "Pathfinder" version of WoD. There's no other Supernatural Urban Fantasy Horror setting out there that has the same draw, mass appeal, and ease of learning. Dresden Files was maybe the closest setting wise one could get, and it still doesn't come close.

On the LARP scene, it's dying. By Night Studios is ran by the same people who own Mind's Eye Society as well. Mind's Eye Society used to be the official White Wolf Larp known as "The Camarilla" it's been incestuous and driving out new members for years based on cronyism and favoritism among it's longtime members. It's biggest competitor "One World by Night" is the only one with a stable population, and doesn't use anything created from "By Night Studios". One World by Night is STILL using the 90's "Laws of the Night" book.

Really though, while WoD isn't dying or on lifesupport... it's nowhere near the phenomena it once was. This is of course Whitewolf's own fault. They screwed the pooch killing off the Classic World of Darkness and introducing a New world of Darkness that was less unique. It's original intention was to allow for customization and building of your own setting like this very thread is talking about... but just came off as a lesser version of the original. There are things I like about Nwod, some real gems in there like "Hunter: The Vigil" but the rest pales in comparison.

The 20th Anniversary Books were a massive success, and brought new life back to WoD. They were supposed to just be one offs, but were so successful they relaunched entire lines. Enough, Onxy path was going to make an official "4th edition" of Masquerade. But as I've stated in other threads.. that got fucked up. Paradox bought them, declared 20th anniversary was the "4th edition" and hired outsiders with no experience writing WoD to create the new "5th edition". 5th edition has really split the fanbase, it's basically wod's D&D 4th edition, you either love it or hate it.

All of this is to say though... at the end of the day, capturing that "Zeitgeist" that Wod created is probably impossible at this point. Urban Shadows, Dresden Files, Bleed, Monster Hearts, Buffy the Vampire Slayer... none of them are as good as WoD, none of them are as interesting as the classic setting. Mark*Rein-Hagen, the original creator of WoD is a fucking genius when it comes to setting creation.. no one has been able to match his creations since.

That's because no one has ever tried, not because it's impossible or that WoD has some kind of unique magic behind it. What other setting can you name that ever tried to approach the sheer volume of Rein-Hagen's work? It's millions of words across hundreds of books. That's a hugely unfair comparison.

I don't like the setting or the mechanics because it's somebody's particular vision and I don't agree with that vision. I don't like people telling me incessantly that my desires aren't worth having and that I should fall in line like a good little consumer.

Quote from: Itachi;1129622Totally agreed.

Which goes back to the original question: how to pull it out with a D&D based engine? I like OSR but it's too tied to medievalesque combat to fit a modern, personal horror+politics game IMHO. Things like Thaco or AC stop making sense in a setting there is no armor to begin with.

Except if the OP is using "OSR" here to mean any old system and not only D&D.

It doesn't have to be D&D-based. Yes, I'm using OSR in a more generic sense.

The WoD OSR was the 20th anniversary editions. They went back to the OWoD after years of CoD, which is a revival in and of itself, and the 20th anniversary editions brought back the more open ended flexibility and optional feel of 1st and 2nd editions; it had a pre-revised feel to it even if it included some optional revised fluff.

V5, in some regards, reversed that. It took up the heavy handed canon, metaplot, and one wayism of revised VtM and turned it up to 11.

Quote from: Pat;1129618I never played World of Darkness seriously, but I do think playing monsters struggling to maintain their humanity, while engaging in political maneuvering against other even more powerful monsters, all in the modern world, makes for a compelling setting. But I'd be more interested in a version adapted to old school D&D, than a retroclone of the Storyteller system. The level system would probably have to change significantly, but you could still have infinite progression by peeling back layers after layers of secrets; as you get more powerful, you learn of another group that's behind the group you just mastered, and then you start moving in those circles.

I've been thinking about a project lately which is exactly that (save the humanity part.) It's basically the campaign I wanted to run decades ago, but my group could never leave behind the White Wolf elements, and I got tired of pounding my head against a wall. But I've always wanted to necro it, but with an entirely different system to make sure the White Wolf baggage doesn't get in the way.  I'm looking at using a modified B/X core, much like Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine Publishing) does for his games. He's hands-down the king of using the B/X chassis for modern genres, if not one of the best OSR publishers around, and if I can manage to produce something with 1/10th of that quality I will consider it a success. The goal is not to create a "Vampire: the Masquerade with the serial numbers filed off" but to riff off the World of Darkness and a few other influences. If V:TM is an elaborately decorated, multi-layered wedding cake, this project is more like a stack of pancakes.


What's Out

• This won't be an urban fantasy game, but a vampire game. Mainly because designing all of those splats is too much work. My goal is to limit the focus on one thing. If it works, I can expand into different areas in subsequent products.
• No White Wolf lingo. I'm going to assume it's all under copyright, so you won't find Camirilla, Sabbat, Brujah, Nosferatu, Embrace, Kindred, Diablerie, Rotshreck, etc.
  
• Not too many of the V:TM concepts will survive. Some are unavoidable, for example, there's got to be a way to create new vampires. But I'm not going call it the Embrace. And there will be diablerie, but I need a new word for it.
  
• There are no vampire clans. But like any B/X game, there are classes, which are a mix of what you do and what you are. But these will not resemble the WW clans.
• There's no war between the badass violent sect and the corrupt but cultured sect, nor a war between the vampires and the werewolves, nor a war between the ruling class and the anarchists.
• There's no metaplot. There are setting elements, but they provide a structure, not a straight-jacket. The game is about your campaign and your players, not some grandiose preordained story.
• The game is not about "personal horror" or "losing your humanity" or wallowing in guilt and angst about the monster you've become. It is unabashedly what some critics call "superheroes with fangs." Because let's be honest: living forever and getting super powers is fucking awesome.

What's In

• System-wise, it will be a modified B/X chassis, with classes, levels, hit points, (ascending) armor class, saving throws, and a skill system with about 30 skills.
• The skills will blur the line between the mundane and the supernatural. For example, climb doesn't mean you climb a wall with hand holds and gear. it means you climb up a sheer vertical surface like a spider. Intimidate doesn't mean you threaten a guy with a gun and he backs down, it means he runs away in terror.
• Magic will be much like you're used to. Some spells will be familiar, while others will be new. Clerical magic is slightly different. Instead of spells, you learn Secrets and Rituals. Since all vampires can self-heal, the cleric isn't a heal-bot, but focuses on defense, information, and esoteric vampire lore.

So, what's the setting like?

• The World: The world is violent and corrupt. I love the the general feel of the WOD, where the game world is a darker reflection of our own.
• The City: It's not a real city in our world, but an amalgamation of many different cities. It has the skyscrapers of NYC and Chicago, the subway tunnels of London, the catacombs and sewers of Paris, and the ancient underground cisterns of Istanbul. Where is the City? Wherever you want it to be.
• The Houses: Vampire society is centered around the Houses. Think Game of Thrones or Dune and you've got it. Each House is ruled by a very powerful Lord/Lady, who controls a section of the city known as a demense. Each demense is a feeding ground, and vampires are very territorial by nature. You can't hunt on another house's territory. Conflict over territory is one of the main drivers of the game.
• The Duke: Someone has to be in charge. Again, think of GOT or Dune and you've got the general idea. The main job of the Duke is to ensure that (1) the territorial disputes don't get out of hand, (2) the mortal herds don't get too thin, and (3) the vampire population doesn't get too large. These three things tend to exist in a delicate balance--when one gets out of hand, it threatens the other two. And when all three get out of control, it becomes an existential threat.

Ok, but what do the players do?

• Dungeoncrawls: It's an OSR game, so killing monsters and taking their stuff is a thing. You can probably guess from the paragraph above what the "dungeons" are going to be. The "monsters" will usually be other vampires (or their minions) and "stuff" will be a little different than a classic D&D game. But the spirit is the same.
• Politics: Another component of the game deals with diplomatic relations between the houses. Making and breaking deals, backstabbing, treachery, seduction, assassination, etc. Every Lord curries favor with the Duke to gain an advantage over his rivals, while scheming on how to kill him and take his place.
• Mystery: No one knows who the first vampire was, or why vampires were created in the first place. There are several theories, which over the centuries have become mystery cults and in some cases, religions. But any concrete evidence has been lost to the sands of time. Finding lost texts and ancient artifacts provides power, both in the abstract and literal sense.

So that's basically where I'm at. It's not much, but let me know what you think.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1129634The WoD OSR was the 20th anniversary editions. They went back to the OWoD after years of CoD, which is a revival in and of itself, and the 20th anniversary editions brought back the more open ended flexibility and optional feel of 1st and 2nd editions; it had a pre-revised feel to it even if it included some optional revised fluff.

V5, in some regards, reversed that. It took up the heavy handed canon, metaplot, and one wayism of revised VtM and turned it up to 11.

This woman gets it.

Personally, I'd love to revive the WoD LARP scene but do so in a way that rejects the metaplot outright and basically resets the setting back to the 1e and 2e days. Sort of like V20 initially set out to do in 2011-2012.

It'd have to be done outside the networks of By Night Studios/Mind's Eye Society and One World by Night, though.

You should check out Monte Cook's World Of Darkness. It has a good basis for doing what you apparently want to do.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1129634The WoD OSR was the 20th anniversary editions. They went back to the OWoD after years of CoD, which is a revival in and of itself, and the 20th anniversary editions brought back the more open ended flexibility and optional feel of 1st and 2nd editions; it had a pre-revised feel to it even if it included some optional revised fluff.

V5, in some regards, reversed that. It took up the heavy handed canon, metaplot, and one wayism of revised VtM and turned it up to 11.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1129672This woman gets it.

Personally, I'd love to revive the WoD LARP scene but do so in a way that rejects the metaplot outright and basically resets the setting back to the 1e and 2e days. Sort of like V20 initially set out to do in 2011-2012.

It'd have to be done outside the networks of By Night Studios/Mind's Eye Society and One World by Night, though.

I don't like the setting. I want to be able to play and discuss other campaign settings, just like Dungeons & Dragons or All Flesh Must Be Eaten.

I want the freedom to create vampire characters who are not restricted by Rein-Hagen's specific setting idiosyncrasies. I want to be able to emulate any vampire fiction or invent my own original settings and share them without fear of being shunned for heresy.

Quote from: Aglondir;1129641I've been thinking about a project lately which is exactly that (save the humanity part.) It's basically the campaign I wanted to run decades ago, but my group could never leave behind the White Wolf elements, and I got tired of pounding my head against a wall. But I've always wanted to necro it, but with an entirely different system to make sure the White Wolf baggage doesn't get in the way.  I'm looking at using a modified B/X core, much like Kevin Crawford (Sine Nomine Publishing) does for his games. He's hands-down the king of using the B/X chassis for modern genres, if not one of the best OSR publishers around, and if I can manage to produce something with 1/10th of that quality I will consider it a success. The goal is not to create a "Vampire: the Masquerade with the serial numbers filed off" but to riff off the World of Darkness and a few other influences. If V:TM is an elaborately decorated, multi-layered wedding cake, this project is more like a stack of pancakes.


What's Out

• This won't be an urban fantasy game, but a vampire game. Mainly because designing all of those splats is too much work. My goal is to limit the focus on one thing. If it works, I can expand into different areas in subsequent products.
• No White Wolf lingo. I'm going to assume it's all under copyright, so you won't find Camirilla, Sabbat, Brujah, Nosferatu, Embrace, Kindred, Diablerie, Rotshreck, etc.
  
• Not too many of the V:TM concepts will survive. Some are unavoidable, for example, there's got to be a way to create new vampires. But I'm not going call it the Embrace. And there will be diablerie, but I need a new word for it.
  
• There are no vampire clans. But like any B/X game, there are classes, which are a mix of what you do and what you are. But these will not resemble the WW clans.
• There's no war between the badass violent sect and the corrupt but cultured sect, nor a war between the vampires and the werewolves, nor a war between the ruling class and the anarchists.
• There's no metaplot. There are setting elements, but they provide a structure, not a straight-jacket. The game is about your campaign and your players, not some grandiose preordained story.
• The game is not about "personal horror" or "losing your humanity" or wallowing in guilt and angst about the monster you've become. It is unabashedly what some critics call "superheroes with fangs." Because let's be honest: living forever and getting super powers is fucking awesome.

What's In

• System-wise, it will be a modified B/X chassis, with classes, levels, hit points, (ascending) armor class, saving throws, and a skill system with about 30 skills.
• The skills will blur the line between the mundane and the supernatural. For example, climb doesn't mean you climb a wall with hand holds and gear. it means you climb up a sheer vertical surface like a spider. Intimidate doesn't mean you threaten a guy with a gun and he backs down, it means he runs away in terror.
• Magic will be much like you're used to. Some spells will be familiar, while others will be new. Clerical magic is slightly different. Instead of spells, you learn Secrets and Rituals. Since all vampires can self-heal, the cleric isn't a heal-bot, but focuses on defense, information, and esoteric vampire lore.

So, what's the setting like?

• The World: The world is violent and corrupt. I love the the general feel of the WOD, where the game world is a darker reflection of our own.
• The City: It's not a real city in our world, but an amalgamation of many different cities. It has the skyscrapers of NYC and Chicago, the subway tunnels of London, the catacombs and sewers of Paris, and the ancient underground cisterns of Istanbul. Where is the City? Wherever you want it to be.
• The Houses: Vampire society is centered around the Houses. Think Game of Thrones or Dune and you've got it. Each House is ruled by a very powerful Lord/Lady, who controls a section of the city known as a demense. Each demense is a feeding ground, and vampires are very territorial by nature. You can't hunt on another house's territory. Conflict over territory is one of the main drivers of the game.
• The Duke: Someone has to be in charge. Again, think of GOT or Dune and you've got the general idea. The main job of the Duke is to ensure that (1) the territorial disputes don't get out of hand, (2) the mortal herds don't get too thin, and (3) the vampire population doesn't get too large. These three things tend to exist in a delicate balance--when one gets out of hand, it threatens the other two. And when all three get out of control, it becomes an existential threat.

Ok, but what do the players do?

• Dungeoncrawls: It's an OSR game, so killing monsters and taking their stuff is a thing. You can probably guess from the paragraph above what the "dungeons" are going to be. The "monsters" will usually be other vampires (or their minions) and "stuff" will be a little different than a classic D&D game. But the spirit is the same.
• Politics: Another component of the game deals with diplomatic relations between the houses. Making and breaking deals, backstabbing, treachery, seduction, assassination, etc. Every Lord curries favor with the Duke to gain an advantage over his rivals, while scheming on how to kill him and take his place.
• Mystery: No one knows who the first vampire was, or why vampires were created in the first place. There are several theories, which over the centuries have become mystery cults and in some cases, religions. But any concrete evidence has been lost to the sands of time. Finding lost texts and ancient artifacts provides power, both in the abstract and literal sense.

So that's basically where I'm at. It's not much, but let me know what you think.

It sounds like a tabletop version of Bloodlust: Shadowhunter. The premise is clear, concise, and well thought. You should go for it.

Just to let you know, a lot of the VtM clans are just copied from vampire fiction or non-vampire fiction. Ventrue are based on Lord Ruthven, Toreadors on Lestat, Nosferatus on Graf Orlock, Gangrels and Brujahs on the Lost Boys, Tremeres on an Ars Magica organization, Malkavians on that Nicholas Cage movie Vampire's Kiss, Tzimisces on Necroscope, Lasombra on Bram Stoker's Dracula's shadow SFX, Assamites on the historical assassins, Setites on Robert E. Howard's Conan stories, etc.

Furthermore, there's a wealth of folklore around the world one could draw upon for inspiration. I provided a list of research books in another thread.

Anyway, if you want more ideas for exploring vampires without being arbitrarily limited by WW's shadow, then I suggest reading other vampire fiction. Warhammer Fantasy, The Everlasting, American Vampire, one of the several d20 books about variant vampires like Lords of the Night: Vampires or Out for Blood, etc. Although Feed pretty much takes the cake with its first chapter explaining in depth that you can create your own vampire strains and providing copious examples of creative interpretations of vampires. For example, on page 15 it states that members of the Adze strain only have a lifespan of about four months after infection. You'd never see that in a WW product.

Tangent: I despise diablerie. Aside from WW's typical inane tendency to take dictionary words and arbitrarily assign them new unrelated meanings (e.g. diablerie translates to and is cognate with devilry), it's just an excuse to be a munchkin. I know it's loosely based on Anne Rice, but Anne wrote it cooler: to steal a vampire's power, you have to eat their brain and heart. How metal is that?

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1129675You should check out Monte Cook's World Of Darkness. It has a good basis for doing what you apparently want to do.

Thanks for the suggestion, but sadly that's not OGL.

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Anyone interested in hearing more specific ideas for organizations and bloodlines?

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1129675You should check out Monte Cook's World Of Darkness. It has a good basis for doing what you apparently want to do.

Thanks for the suggestion, but sadly that's not OGL.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I don't consider OSR anything other than old school dnd. At some point it became popular to use the OSR lable and that's it. That doesn't mean that there isn't value in other older games, Runequest in Glorantha for example is a great book (or so I have heard) but that doesn't make it OSR.
That said there is some value in maybe improving older rules than constantly making up new ones. I haven't seen the last edition of vampire but there is a limit to people learning new rules. In the big purple there were some interesting threads about the sandboxy nature of certain Vampire 1e supplements.
Also exalted OSR? 3e is very far removed from 1st, the only exalted osr I could see being called that is the exalted vs wod book.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1129678It sounds like a tabletop version of Bloodlust: Shadowhunter. The premise is clear, concise, and well thought. You should go for it.

Thanks! I will add Bloodlust: Shadowhunter to my list.

QuoteAnyway, if you want more ideas for exploring vampires without being arbitrarily limited by WW's shadow, then I suggest reading other vampire fiction. Warhammer Fantasy, The Everlasting, American Vampire, one of the several d20 books about variant vampires like Lords of the Night: Vampires or Out for Blood, etc. Although Feed pretty much takes the cake with its first chapter explaining in depth that you can create your own vampire strains and providing copious examples of creative interpretations of vampires. For example, on page 15 it states that members of the Adze strain only have a lifespan of about four months after infection. You'd never see that in a WW product.

True. Have you seen Gurps: Bloodlines? It looks like a primer of vampire myths from around the world. That's not really the direction I want to go, but something might inspire me. Ypu've mentioned Feed before, so I will add that to my list as well.

QuoteTangent: I despise diablerie. Aside from WW's typical inane tendency to take dictionary words and arbitrarily assign them new unrelated meanings (e.g. diablerie translates to and is cognate with devilry), it's just an excuse to be a munchkin. I know it's loosely based on Anne Rice, but Anne wrote it cooler: to steal a vampire's power, you have to eat their brain and heart. How metal is that?

That's great! I forgot that in Rice. Interview was a bit boring, Letstat was good, and Queen of the Damned... eh, mixed. Here's how I want to use diableire (for lack of a better word): Lost secrets are a big deal, since they give you forgotten knowledge and powers. Diabelrie is a way to consume the secrets locked inside a vampire's memory. It's got nothing to do with generation (not using that) or blood pool (which increases with age.)

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1129675You should check out Monte Cook's World Of Darkness. It has a good basis for doing what you apparently want to do.

I have it. McWOD is a mixed bag, but in the end, I would not use it.  

The Premise

McWOD isn't really a D20 conversion of the World of Darkness. The world has been invaded by Big Bads called the Iconnu, which are not the Inconnu mentioned in Vampire. For one things, the first N is missing (not sure why) and for the second thing, they are more like archdemons or antediluvians. They created an Intrusion Point, sort of like a hell gate, near Milwaukee. A Nightmare Wave spread across the earth, converting some people into vampires, werewolves, demons, mages, and awakened mortals (think hunters.) It doesn't quite work as a generic urban fantasy game due to the focus.


The Good

I like the premise, and I wish Monte had left out the WOD parts. McWOD is really Monte's horror post-apocalypse game with WOD stuff tacked on. You can have adventures in Chicago, which is still a functioning city but under the influence of shadow creatures; or in the ruins of Milwaukee, which is a war zone where reality starts to break down. Or if you are brave enough, you can enter Intrusion Point which might lead to another dimension. That's a great idea, especially when used as a horror sandbox. It sort of has a Resident Evil feel, if you substitute the Nightmare Wave for the Virus.


The Bad

The writing is a bit too "in your face" at times, with the NPCs reminding you how bad-ass they are.  The WOD elements occupy that uncomfortable zone where they are familiar enough to be recognized, but changed to the point where it's annoying. Vampires have nothing to do with Caine. Instead, they are souls of evil dead people fused with mortals. Werewolves are spirits of rage fused with mortals. Demons are nothing like the demons in Demon: The Fallen, but are simply minor demons who don't want to be controlled by the Iconnu. Mages always existed, but the Nightmare Wave has amplified their powers. They use a complex free-form magic system which is nothing like Ascension or Awakening. The Awakened probably get the short end of the stick power-wise, with only a few feats. Actually, all of that stuff could be in the "Good" section, if the World of Darkness lingo was taken out. The irony is that the ideas are solid enough that they could have stood on their own. It would have been better if the players were all Hunters, and Monte had ditched the WOD elements and called it "D20 Nightmare Wave."

Quote from: Aglondir;1129683Thanks! I will add Bloodlust: Shadowhunter to my list.

Sorry, just to be clear the comment was aimed at your efforts, not the video game.

Quote from: Aglondir;1129683True. Have you seen Gurps: Bloodlines? It looks like a primer of vampire myths from around the world. That's not really the direction I want to go, but something might inspire me. Ypu've mentioned Feed before, so I will add that to my list as well.

Fair enough.

GURPS: Blood Types. I've read it. It's hardly exhaustive, but it's a good start.

Quote from: Aglondir;1129683That's great! I forgot that in Rice. Interview was a bit boring, Letstat was good, and Queen of the Damned... eh, mixed. Here's how I want to use diableire (for lack of a better word): Lost secrets are a big deal, since they give you forgotten knowledge and powers. Diabelrie is a way to consume the secrets locked inside a vampire's memory. It's got nothing to do with generation (not using that) or blood pool (which increases with age.)

Yeah, that sounds so much less munchkiny. If you want a fancy word for it, then maybe mnemophagy? It's from Ancient Greek mnemo- meaning memory and -phagy meaning eating. Thus, "eating memory". Or maybe mnemomancy (memory divination) if its ritual where no actual cannibalism is involved. Or haruspicy if you're dismembering the target and reading the memories from the brain surface or whatever.

Greek and Latin loanwords are always good sources for fancy-sounding gibberish.

Quote from: Aglondir;1129685I have it. McWOD is a mixed bag, but in the end, I would not use it.  

The Premise

McWOD isn't really a D20 conversion of the World of Darkness. The world has been invaded by Big Bads called the Iconnu, which are not the Inconnu mentioned in Vampire. For one things, the first N is missing (not sure why) and for the second thing, they are more like archdemons or antediluvians. They created an Intrusion Point, sort of like a hell gate, near Milwaukee. A Nightmare Wave spread across the earth, converting some people into vampires, werewolves, demons, mages, and awakened mortals (think hunters.) It doesn't quite work as a generic urban fantasy game due to the focus.


The Good

I like the premise, and I wish Monte had left out the WOD parts. McWOD is really Monte's horror post-apocalypse game with WOD stuff tacked on. You can have adventures in Chicago, which is still a functioning city but under the influence of shadow creatures; or in the ruins of Milwaukee, which is a war zone where reality starts to break down. Or if you are brave enough, you can enter Intrusion Point which might lead to another dimension. That's a great idea, especially when used as a horror sandbox. It sort of has a Resident Evil feel, if you substitute the Nightmare Wave for the Virus.


The Bad

The writing is a bit too "in your face" at times, with the NPCs reminding you how bad-ass they are.  The WOD elements occupy that uncomfortable zone where they are familiar enough to be recognized, but changed to the point where it's annoying. Vampires have nothing to do with Caine. Instead, they are souls of evil dead people fused with mortals. Werewolves are spirits of rage fused with mortals. Demons are nothing like the demons in Demon: The Fallen, but are simply minor demons who don't want to be controlled by the Iconnu. Mages always existed, but the Nightmare Wave has amplified their powers. They use a complex free-form magic system which is nothing like Ascension or Awakening. The Awakened probably get the short end of the stick power-wise, with only a few feats. Actually, all of that stuff could be in the "Good" section, if the World of Darkness lingo was taken out. The irony is that the ideas are solid enough that they could have stood on their own. It would have been better if the players were all Hunters, and Monte had ditched the WOD elements and called it "D20 Nightmare Wave."

Monte seems to have recycled some of the ideas for his urban fantasy game The Strange. It involves traveling to other worlds created from human imagination, not all of which are functional worlds in their own right. Some are inhabited by dangerous things that want to invade Earth.

It's amazing ideas like that which prevent me from committing to a single setting. I can't do any of my miscellaneous interests justice without creating a multiverse.

That reminds me: back in the mid 90s some guy made a multiverse setting for Mage: The Ascension. It's called The Continuum. It suffers from the same problem that you say McWoD does, in that the bits of WoD are more of a crutch than anything else.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1129565So there's an OSR for lots of things now. Dungeons & Dragons, Call of Cthulhu, Exalted... why not World of Darkness?

EDIT: For example, Opening the Dark is an OGL retroclone of the Storyteller rules.

I'd rather have my horror themed game, Actual Fucking Monsters by our Grim, or something more generic. If I wanted to play good monsters I would go more for a Patricia Briggs kinda setting.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1129707I'd rather have my horror themed game, Actual Fucking Monsters by our Grim, or something more generic. If I wanted to play good monsters I would go more for a Patricia Briggs kinda setting.

Fair enough.

AFM is intended to simulate 80s horror movies and thus adventures only last a short time before ending in a TPK as intended. It has a specific goal in mind and creates mechanics to support that. It isn't intended to be long running or involve politics.

Saying "Patricia Briggs" isn't that informative to me. What precisely do you intend?

On another note, my mood varies on whether I want bad monsters, good monsters, or somewhere between monsters. Sometimes I might want Liminal-style vampires that are mostly evil aside from a minority who retain their human hearts, other times I might prefer more vampire politics and thus less sociopathic vampires, or I might prefer a sliding humanity scale.

That's why I decided to go for a systemless setting so that I could tailor it to different systems like Urban Shadows or whatever.

Dungeon Crawling and D&D Stats are kind of the exact opposite of what I want when it comes to Urban Fantasy Horror.

I was actually working on my own homebrew World of Darkness style setting material a couple years back. I actually was quite proud of how I differentiated Vampires and Werewolves and Demons from the way they were presented in White Wolf, but still kept some of those thematic elements.

System wise though, I think one of the other big draws of it is how easy it is to learn and teach someone. The Discreet powers also make things feel interesting in WoD. My own way of approaching it though, was to make a master list of dot based powers, and then give different discounts on purchasing them for specific species, and variant abilities that could only be used by specific splats.

Vampire: The Masquerade honestly would make for a better Scooby-Doo setting than anything else. Those darned kids mucking up the elders' plans at every turn would actually be pretty entertaining.