Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1105769And now Paizo is selling Pathfinder 2nd edition, and, even though I try to rein in my most unsavory impulses, I'm angry and I'm tempted to yell (inner voice, for now :-) :  "Go fuck yourself, Paizo. Get broke and let your business die, motherfuckers !"

And then I look at Wizards of the Coast and their own virtue signaling, and I wonder.

You turn some Goblins into the "not bad guys" and all of a sudden its Woke Gone Broke.

Remember Paizo gave Jessica Price the boot and WotC has the Gay Gnome Kings in their starter set.

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Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1105840Holy crap. I skimmed the thread. It was a generally nice back & forth - and then suddenly Jessica Price jumped in an started calling everyone bigots. Bwah!?

But it should not surprise me. She's what started my own drift from those boards. She had me temporarily banned on a thread about orcs=colonialism=guilt for pointing out that orc depictions pretty obviously had much more in common with Germanic tribes relative to the Romans and sarcastically made a comment about how I should be offended since I'm largely German.

Yeah, Jessica Price was what drove me from the PF forums, and thus eventually from buying PF.

Nearly all corporations cave into doing rainbow pride month now. Because, guess what happens to them if they don't.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1105846Nearly all corporations cave into doing rainbow pride month now. Because, guess what happens to them if they don't.

Nothing?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105777Or, as some have pointed elsewhere, it's the other way around, first they Go Broke and then they (in desperation) Go Woke, in a vain attempt to make up for their loss in sales. See the current developments about Disney cooking the books for years and their very recent going Woke.

It could be either way and I guess we'll never know.

That seems more likely to me; plenty of RPG publishers went broke before "woke" was even a thing. I expect that plenty still go broke without espousing any political position.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1105769Is get woke go broke a reality on the RPG scene? I'd like to know the point of view of forum members on this one....for the time being I've decided to buy some OSR products, so as not to give my money to limp-dicks cretin social reformers, and to murder Orcs with wrathful abandon...

I don't have my finger on the pulse of the RPG scene, so I can only reply from my personal experience. I think that the companies that tend to "get woke" aren't companies that I'm doing business with, anyway. You mentioned Paizo and WotC. I have purchased products from both of them, in the past. From Paizo, I think I have a couple of their Dungeon issues. I never liked Pathfinder (neither the system, the art, or the adventure path thing were to my taste), so I didn't go for any of that. From WotC, I have the 3.0 rules and a handful of 3.0 adventures, but after playing it a while I decided it wasn't what I wanted from D&D and switched back to TSR D&D, so I haven't been a WotC customer in a long time. Let's see, who else... I purchased some stuff from Green Ronin, years ago. I had some of their early Freeport stuff when I was trying out 3.0. I liked some of their niche products (I thought Testament was pretty well done, and I liked the Black Company setting), even though the system isn't what I'd use. I tried True20 when it came out, but decided it wasn't for me. I have Mutants & Masterminds (1e), but never play it, these days. I guess I dropped those companies before the "woke" thing started gaining any traction, so "wokeness" had little or nothing to do with those decisions. Maybe there's a correlation, but it isn't a cause (i.e., maybe the companies that tend towards "wokeness" also tend to produce products that don't appeal to me regardless of their "wokeness" or lack thereof).

These days, I don't spend much on my RPG hobby. I've settled in. I'm off the edition train (perhaps it's more of a carousel). I have the games I like best, and I have everything I could possibly need to play for the rest of my life. Any purchases are just because I like a product. I think the last few things I purchased were almost all OSR-type products: adventures for Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea (good adventures and cool art), Lion & Dragon (because I like the "medieval authentic" premise and borrowed some of the stuff from it for my own campaign), The Saving Throw 'zine (useful material from authors I know and enjoy), et cetera. Looking at those, I wouldn't expect any of their publishers to get on the "woke" bandwagon, but I guess we'll see. Even if they did, as long as the product was something I like, I'd still buy it. The degree of "wokeness" just isn't something I've been using a factor when deciding what to buy. I suppose that could change if it affected the appeal of the product, but who knows?

Quote from: Omega;1105838Its more a factor of someone in marketing or elsewhere in a company infiltrating and then suggesting that going woke is the next big business boom. Theres millions to be made off all the women and gays and blacks! And that the best way to do that is to utterly 100% alienate a chunk of your customer base while pandering to a new customer base that STILL wont buy because a chunk of them despise being pandered to and despise all the virtue signalling.

But by then its too late. The company is either thoroughly infested with these cultists. And/Or the company has sunk alot of cash into rebranding. And/Or the company has murdered its original customer base.

Don't discount the possibility of "alternate funding", contingent on the promotion of Woke both in product and by prominent company personnel on social media.

Not sure how much of a factor it is, but here in the era of the Internet, a person does not have to buy a product to get access to it.

Quote from: Fergurg;1105856Not sure how much of a factor it is, but here in the era of the Internet, a person does not have to buy a product to get access to it.

Yaar I say mate!

Quote from: Shasarak;1105848Nothing?

The opposite of that.

I don't think we've had huge evidence yet that "go woke, go broke" is a thing in any industry. Seems that consumer markets are bifurcating into woke and non- (or anti-) woke, and there is money to be made on both sides. Drive away one half, and make committed fans of the other.

The thing is I don't mind seeing more diversity and inclusivity in rpgs.

Except too many companies refuse to stubbornly find a proper middle ground leaving what makes a setting interesting and suddenly turning it into Seattle and Portland 2019.

Have some Orcs not automatically be all evil with many being shades of grey. With the rest being predominantly evil. Sometimes one can just have good and evil and sometimes the enemy being fought has no redeeming qualities.

 Instead with Paizo in 2E everyone has to get along and if what is being said earlier in the thread apparently all the Iconic characters are supposed to be all bisexual. It comes off as cheap pandering to a small demographic who have shown they want more diversity and inclusivelty yet once they get what they want they don't purchase from the company who suddenly became "woke". Even then with Paizo it feels less like they believe in both and more virtue signalling than anything else in the hopes that the SJW demographic buys their product.

Woke companies like Paizo remind me of the person at the party trying to hard to be noticed. Except most people can see them for what they truly are.

So who are the enemies now in Golarion CIS, white straight toxic masculinity males npcs and characters. Beyond not buying 2E for the rules and the cost it seems they made their setting boring imo.

It's also like what they do in too many TV shows now. Instead of having female characters stand on their own they have to tear down male characters in the process of trying to appear strong. If anything that turns off many viewers as it shows once again the writers of the show are trying to be too woke.

Quote from: The_Shadow;1105876I don't think we've had huge evidence yet that "go woke, go broke" is a thing in any industry. Seems that consumer markets are bifurcating into woke and non- (or anti-) woke, and there is money to be made on both sides. Drive away one half, and make committed fans of the other.

There is. Various media are showing at first a spike in sales, viewers, etc. And then a sometimes precipitous, sometimes gradual but steady, loss in customers/viewers. Those that do not reign it tend to see ever more losses in their fanbase. More if they have been attacking fans during the "woke". A few seem hellbent on crashing their parent company to shove the great big throbbing shemale cock of AGENDA! down everyones throat.

Add to that fans are getting increasingly hostile to outrage marketing on top of that and things are building up to a blowout.

Depending on wether or not various companies wake up and see the situation. Expect several to possibly crash and burn in the next few years unless something happens to turn that around.

Quote from: sureshot;1105878The thing is I don't mind seeing more diversity and inclusivity in rpgs.

Except too many companies refuse to stubbornly find a proper middle ground leaving what makes a setting interesting and suddenly turning it into Seattle and Portland 2019.

Have some Orcs not automatically be all evil with many being shades of grey. With the rest being predominantly evil. Sometimes one can just have good and evil and sometimes the enemy being fought has no redeeming qualities.

OD&D orcs could be chaotic or neutral. And in BX Chaotic could be anything from hostile to friendly so you could and likely would run into friendly orcs or anything else. Despite whatever their background text might say.

Same really with AD&D. Not all orcs were bad. You just tended to run into the bad ones as, duh, they are being bad! Just like you are more likely to run into hostile bandits and such. But not all bandits were bad/evil.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1105868The opposite of that.

Seems like Chick-fil-A is doing Ok despite supposedly being anti LGB.

Could be wrong though, maybe opening more shops means your business is doing worse.