Quote from: Omega;11055231a: Its falsely notorious because people with an agenda, or who never actually looked at the entry want something to parade around and bitch about incessantly. Its manufactured outrage. Just read some of the posts in this thread.

You saw the air quotes, right?

Quote1b: In AD&D Conan, Conan has STR: 18(90), and 18 in CON and DEX. I am not even going to bother listing Red Sonja's stats because whomever wrote that never actually read any of the comics.
In TSR Conan his stats are good and his total is 220 character points. Exceeding some other pregens by nearly 100 total character points. This is though a Conan who has done ALOT of adventuring since you start out with only 35 points. +5 points per weakness and Conan has three. So he started out with 50 points. But there are primary NPCs that come close, or actually exceed him, One even exceeding Conan by 100 character points. Sadly they never got around to statting Red Sonja.

Well that's just dumb; Conan is stronger than anyone he meets except some weird demons or whatever. I am going purely by the REH stories; I've never read any of that other garbage.

Quote from: Omega;1105578Bemusingly in the TSR Conan system. Valeria actually outclasses Conan point-wise and is actually rated stronger then the Conan presented in the last module. And is a slightly better swordfighter.

And this is even dumber...

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105496STR is going to matter in any RPG which features hand-to-hand or melee combat. Even Star Wars has fist fights and Wookies tossing stormtroopers as not everyone has a lightsaber. In 40k, STR is necessary because lots of the big damage weapons are heavy. In these future worlds, cybernetics are an easy way for weaker characters to artificially gain STR.

I played Saga Edition Star Wars - STR was an optional stat. As in everything D20-derived, there is Finesse, which allows you to use DEX for most of the common applications of STR. There was even a Talent that allowed you to use CHA instead of STR for melee combat.

Quote from: Kiero;1105608I played Saga Edition Star Wars - STR was an optional stat. As in everything D20-derived, there is Finesse, which allows you to use DEX for most of the common applications of STR. There was even a Talent that allowed you to use CHA instead of STR for melee combat.

I went and took the next logical step for my system. If you're proficient with a weapon you get a baseline attack bonus that's good for a 50% hit rate (vs. 55-60% for someone who puts their best score into the appropriate stat or the 30% that having to use your worst stat would cause).

It doesn't add to damage like Strength does or completely supplant Strength for melee attack rolls, but it does impart enough competency that a weakling wizard with proficiency in a staff could at least land a blow (probably not a telling one given that a high strength character would hit twice as hard, but a blow none-the-less).

Quote from: jhkim;1105544HarnMaster (specifically HM3) has reduced Height and -3 to the Frame stat for human females, which affects their Weight, Strength, and (inversely) Agility. It's a famously (or infamously) detailed system, and I think this isn't out of place. For example, there is also a bonus to Height and thus indirectly Strength for being noble, who are better fed.

Human females also have +2 Aura, which is the core ability for magic. I think that's a workable balance. I'd contrast with GeekyBugle's suggestion,

I don't think that works well as balance. Strength is a broadly useful stat, which benefits not just fighters, but also any other melee combatant. A choice of a Strength bonus doesn't pigeonhole someone into being a fighter. For example, I've seen plenty of half-orc clerics, rogues, and others.

But a single-class benefit -- particularly into a class just invented for this purpose -- seems like it would pigeonhole female characters into that one class, which is sucky. I think people playing female characters would feel short-changed.

I'm coming into the discussion pretty late so I'm sorry if this has been covered before. But if the gender strength disparity is that important to your sense of verisimilitude as gm isn't that easy to fix? You set all NPC attribute, just make all or more female humans physically weaker that most/all males.

There may be some PC exceptions, but that can happen even with some sort of imposed penalty if, for example, those playing male character roll poorly or prioritize Strength less than some else and the female PC's player rolls well or wants to be Brienne of Tarth or whatever. she'll stand out more but that would be what the player probably wanted from making their character strong.

Maybe it reflects my personal philosophy, but PCs are generally going to be exceptions in one or a few ways and the rules of character generation are for creating PCs not NPCs unless I chose to use them so I determine the 'norms' of the setting by my choices.

Quote from: Razor 007;1105539That isn't even half of my miniatures.  I may have a problem....

Get back to us when you have at least twenty times that number.

And painted!

Quote from: Brad;1105586Well that's just dumb; Conan is stronger than anyone he meets except some weird demons or whatever. I am going purely by the REH stories; I've never read any of that other garbage.

And this is even dumber...

1: Actually he is not. In the books he meets people stronger than him. Or faster. In his very first story he works with a master thief who is better than him in every way. And died because he got greedy in a place that was notoriously dangerous. Conan gets beat up alot in the stories.

2: Depends. It is a bit odd in context of the core set. She is on par with Thoth-Amon in character points. But she is supposed to be very competent and strong. On par with Conan possibly. So it is more a matter of the module version of Conan not yet being as seasoned as Valeria is. Personally I just think some of her skills are set way too high. 20 in sailing and Navigation. Just dropping those down to 10s alone starts lowering the point disparity. Which may be what the modules did. As mone of the NPCs are as over-statted as the ones in the core.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105662Get back to us when you have at least twenty times that number.

And painted!

I thought he meant the problem was not enough minis and not enough paint.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1105662And painted!

Uh.......no.  Life is too short for that.

Quote from: Omega;11056791: Actually he is not. In the books he meets people stronger than him. Or faster. In his very first story he works with a master thief who is better than him in every way. And died because he got greedy in a place that was notoriously dangerous. Conan gets beat up alot in the stories.

Taurus is the most competent thief ever, and Conan is a novice, yet who succeeds? Also who's stronger than Conan? Certainly not any mortal. And of course he gets beat up, because he's not invincible, but he's smart enough to run away from fights he can't win.

So, again, who's stronger than Conan?

Quote from: Brad;1105720Taurus is the most competent thief ever, and Conan is a novice, yet who succeeds? Also who's stronger than Conan? Certainly not any mortal. And of course he gets beat up, because he's not invincible, but he's smart enough to run away from fights he can't win.

So, again, who's stronger than Conan?

So you never actually read any of the stories. Get back to use when you have.

Quote from: Omega;1105722So you never actually read any of the stories. Get back to use when you have.

Brad's version does match the comics though - I recall the SSOC editor saying that Conan was the strongest, best, greatest etc of his age and would never lose a fight in the comic. Although another might be superior in a specific technique.

I think REH's approach was a lot less absolutist; Conan might well meet someone stronger, but would then find another way to beat them, or retreat.

Quote from: Omega;1105722So you never actually read any of the stories. Get back to use when you have.

I've read every single REH story. I'll repeat: who is stronger than Conan? Hell, who's BETTER than Conan?

Quote from: S'mon;1105725Brad's version does match the comics though - I recall the SSOC editor saying that Conan was the strongest, best, greatest etc of his age and would never lose a fight in the comic. Although another might be superior in a specific technique.

I think REH's approach was a lot less absolutist; Conan might well meet someone stronger, but would then find another way to beat them, or retreat.

REH was of the opinion that Conan would win every fight, somehow, and if he couldn't it was due to some weird paranormal stuff that no mortal could overcome. There is no one in the REH stories that Conan cannot beat except people or beings who have some sort of supernatural bent, and Conan rightly runs away from them.

The comics turn him into a superhero, which I'm not sure matches REH's vision.

Quote from: Brad;1105720Also who's stronger than Conan? Certainly not any mortal.

Thak. Though I will concede that, while Conan considered him a man, not beast, he probably had some hefty racial strength modifiers. So, not really a counterexample.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1105735Thak. Though I will concede that, while Conan considered him a man, not beast, he probably had some hefty racial strength modifiers. So, not really a counterexample.

I wasn't familiar with Thak, so had to look him up. Comic book man-ape, right? (I have read a lot of the old Marvel Conan, but not any of the newer stuff)

Looks cool, I'll check these out.

Quote from: Brad;1105751I wasn't familiar with Thak, so had to look him up. Comic book man-ape, right? (I have read a lot of the old Marvel Conan, but not any of the newer stuff)

Looks cool, I'll check these out.

My memory isn't what it used to be but. I seem to remember an adventure in one of the 12 Ace novels where that particular comic is ripped of from. A wizard and a magnetic table, not sure if "Thak" was called that in the novel or if he was simian or human. There's also another Conan comic with the exact same plot but "Thak" is a man from the Black Kingdoms.

Conan doesn't always win, and when he does it isn't always because he's the strongest, many times it's his ferocity, his will, his cunning (He's smart just not educated) and his willingness to cheat when needed. And when he looses (or runs away) he latter comes back with a plan, friends or both.