Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100063You're completely on a tangent that I didn't start.  A genius (like Einstein) who doesn't have a good grasp of Chinese may do poorly on a test administered in China; it would not reflect the reality of his ability to think creatively and effectively in an abstract way (ie, prove he was intelligent).  

What kind of moron would ship Einstein over to China to have him take an intelligence test in a foreign language? How often do real world intelligence tests do this?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1100066What kind of moron would ship Einstein over to China to have him take an intelligence test in a foreign language? How often do real world intelligence tests do this?

You think this is about intelligence tests..? deadDMwalking is just a programmed NPC; his script tells him that IQ tests are racist because reasons, so then he launches into a dumbass strawman argument to prove it. "WELL EINSTEIN WOULDN'T DO WELL ON A CHINESE IQ TEST LLOLOLOLO I WIN!!!!!" Gee, ya think?

This board is slowly being overrun by so much non-RPG related Marxist stuff it's not even funny.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1100066What kind of moron would ship Einstein over to China to have him take an intelligence test in a foreign language? How often do real world intelligence tests do this?

There are a lot of people that live in the United States that either spoke a different language before moving here, or primarily spoke a different language in their home.

Over 20% of Americans speak a language other than English at home.  Approximately 8% of Americans are of 'limited capability' in English.  

That's a significant number of people who may not be recognized for their intelligence due to communication difficulties.

As a matter of historical fact, Einstein did not have to go to China and did not have to take an intelligence test there; but it turns out that a lot of people from all over the world have come to America and been expected to do exactly that.  That isn't to say that differences in Intelligence don't exist; and that isn't to say that they shouldn't be included in games (I argue both above), but it also doesn't mean that IQ tests are far from a perfect tool to make prescriptive statements about the organization of society.  

They Saved Lisa's Brain

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100071Boop beep beep boop boooooooop

What does this have to do with RPGs?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1100040Raven's Progressive Matrices are non-verbal. I'm not familiar with specific IQ tests, but I'd think language would be an easy thing to compensate for.

  I actually work with Raven's a little at my day job, and we're encouraged to remember that it only measures a specific type of intelligence, which actually fits with some of the article's points.

  I'm fine with scrapping or redefining the mental ability scores (d6 Star Wars and Pendragon both get by fine without them ), but I think calling them 'fascist' is another example of the Neo-Mirror-McCarthyism that is showing up more and more in this hobby.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100071There are a lot of people that live in the United States that either spoke a different language before moving here, or primarily spoke a different language in their home.

Over 20% of Americans speak a language other than English at home.  Approximately 8% of Americans are of 'limited capability' in English.  

That's a significant number of people who may not be recognized for their intelligence due to communication difficulties.

How many of them took intelligence tests in a language they didn't understand?

QuoteAs a matter of historical fact, Einstein did not have to go to China and did not have to take an intelligence test there; but it turns out that a lot of people from all over the world have come to America and been expected to do exactly that.  That isn't to say that differences in Intelligence don't exist; and that isn't to say that they shouldn't be included in games (I argue both above), but it also doesn't mean that IQ tests are far from a perfect tool to make prescriptive statements about the organization of society.  

They Saved Lisa's Brain

Which specific intelligence tests have not compensated for the speaker understanding the test?

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1100081I actually work with Raven's a little at my day job, and we're encouraged to remember that it only measures a specific type of intelligence, which actually fits with some of the article's points.

  I'm fine with scrapping or redefining the mental ability scores (d6 Star Wars and Pendragon both get by fine without them ), but I think calling them 'fascist' is another example of the Neo-Mirror-McCarthyism that is showing up more and more in this hobby.

Exactly.

Quote from: Brendan;1100058Closer to Demolition Man and Idiocracy I think, but yes.

1000% agreed with both.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1100056Wait...intelligence scores in a game are now considered fascist?

We really are living in some bizarre mashup of Animal Farm, Brave New World, Demolition Man, and Idiocracy, aren't we?

I need a fucking drink...

Ray Bradbury called it a long time ago in various works. Cant remember the name of it but one in particular was prophetic. About the last dead person on earth rising from his grave in a future where everything has been utterly sanitized and made safe and non-scary to the point that he cant animate these people as they have no spark left. Its been snuffed one "for your own good" and "think of the children" by one.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100071There are a lot of people that live in the United States that either spoke a different language before moving here, or primarily spoke a different language in their home.

Over 20% of Americans speak a language other than English at home.  Approximately 8% of Americans are of 'limited capability' in English.  

That's a significant number of people who may not be recognized for their intelligence due to communication difficulties.

As a matter of historical fact, Einstein did not have to go to China and did not have to take an intelligence test there; but it turns out that a lot of people from all over the world have come to America and been expected to do exactly that.  That isn't to say that differences in Intelligence don't exist; and that isn't to say that they shouldn't be included in games (I argue both above), but it also doesn't mean that IQ tests are far from a perfect tool to make prescriptive statements about the organization of society.  

They Saved Lisa's Brain

Yes, in México we speak spanish, if you migrate here you'll have to learn spanish, how is this "unfair" in any way?

I haven't seen anybody (besides the very small number of true white supremacists) arguing in favor of IQ tests as a prescriptive tool, but they are a descriptive tool. This is more leftist gibberish, conflating (by ignorance or purpose) one with the other.

Just like in TTRPGS, the stats are generated to describe the character, then it becomes almost prescriptive by making it more difficult for a PC with low IQ to do X. But it really isn't prescriptive, it's trying to model "reality" as defined in a book with fucking elves and what not in it.

Do dumb people usually excel in high math?

Feel free to launch yourself into another strawman that nobody is arguing for.

Quote from: Brad;1100069This board is slowly being overrun by so much non-RPG related Marxist stuff it's not even funny.

Thats because these cultists are encroaching more and more into every level of gaming.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1100071As a matter of historical fact, Einstein did not have to go to China and did not have to take an intelligence test there; but it turns out that a lot of people from all over the world have come to America and been expected to do exactly that.  That isn't to say that differences in Intelligence don't exist; and that isn't to say that they shouldn't be included in games (I argue both above), but it also doesn't mean that IQ tests are far from a perfect tool to make prescriptive statements about the organization of society.  

They Saved Lisa's Brain

Would it be a surprise to find out that there are more English speakers in China then there are in the USA?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1099915But if a species is defined by groups where two individuals can breed, Elves and Humans in Middle Earth could.

That is not a definition of species that is widely used in biology anymore. Else, polar bears and grizzly bears would be the same species. "Race" is not much of a scientific term and is a pain in the ass when used in non-scientific discussion. Species is a scientific term and covers the human/elf gap pretty well.

Quote from: Shasarak;1100111Would it be a surprise to find out that there are more English speakers in China then there are in the USA?

Since China has a billion people (~3x the population of the US) it wouldn't surprise me, but it would be inconsistent with the information I have seen.  I have consistently seen references that approximatly 10 million people in China speak English; I don't know if that includes Hong Kong or counts that separately (approximately half of Hong Kong's 7 million people speak English).  

Wikipedia indicates that the US has 283 million English speakers compared to China's 81 million.  This reference includes a note that only 20% of them can conduct daily conversations, which may be why there is a discrepancy between the 10 million I have seen reported and this number comes from (ie, 81 million may speak SOME ENGLISH, but a much smaller number speak it well enough to get by in an English speaking country).  

What figures do you have?

Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1100112That is not a definition of species that is widely used in biology anymore. Else, polar bears and grizzly bears would be the same species. "Race" is not much of a scientific term and is a pain in the ass when used in non-scientific discussion. Species is a scientific term and covers the human/elf gap pretty well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

Yes, polar bears and Grizzly bears are the same species, they haven't yet reached the point of becoming two separate species since they can still interbreed and have fertile offspring.

Same with dogs and wolfs.

But not with horses and donkeys.

By the way many question if we humans can still interbreed with bonobos and chimps, hopefully we never find out.