Quote from: Theory of Games;1098032PF2 overtakes D&D5 in two years.

Remember THIS.

When they get tired of 5e --- it was 4e's *blah blah* that made Paizo king. 5E has a lot of *blah blah* chargen & play.

Jason is maybe the smartest developer in tabletop gaming (resume uninserted).

Edit: Why?

Paizo will release books faster. More "stuff". I ran a game with 5e players HUNGRY for more material.

Paizo will address combat & spellcasting options faster than 5e with supplements.

If Paizo gets a "Path of War" like supplement first, which they will --- more.

Paizo is all about supplements. That principle drove the franchise. 5e is slower, to their detriment.

I think not.   The tables playing RPGs at all the LFGS I go to are dominated heavily by d&d.  New people I see come in asking about RPGs, ask about d&d (they even have that stranger things boxed set to draw those people right to them).  A few years ago it sure looked like PF was making serious progress, now it looks a lot different.  I guess d&d could try to pull another 4th edition again, but I think they have a pretty serious wave to ride right now.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1098318Only Fighters get those kind of Aoos right?

That's not my understanding.  Some classes get it later (Paladin 6th) and some get to use Reactions for other things (not AoO).

I think some monsters get AoO, and there is a lot of speculation that additional monsters will be given it.  

From my perspective, the monsters/players having different rules is a big disappointment.  If you're going to have AoO, I think they should be available to everyone (or at least everyone with combat training).

I know a crunch loving lady hoping for PF2 to give her that sweet sweet charop sugar she craves. Personally I can't imagine it replacing 5e for me, but I'm willing to give it a go.

Quote from: S'mon;1098363I know a crunch loving lady hoping for PF2 to give her that sweet sweet charop sugar she craves. Personally I can't imagine it replacing 5e for me, but I'm willing to give it a go.

Be prepared for an "OK" time more dependent on your GM than the merits of the game.

Uninspired does not mean bad.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1098355That's not my understanding.  Some classes get it later (Paladin 6th) and some get to use Reactions for other things (not AoO).

I think some monsters get AoO, and there is a lot of speculation that additional monsters will be given it.  

From my perspective, the monsters/players having different rules is a big disappointment.  If you're going to have AoO, I think they should be available to everyone (or at least everyone with combat training).

Yeah quite a few of the combat classes can take it eventually, and anyone that meets the reqs can get it via multiclass fighter feats. At 1st level only the Fighter will have it.

A good chunk of monsters do have it, especially warrior like or alert monsters have a good chance to have it, but its not uniform. Some Orcs have it and some don't, for example.

It took some getting used to at my table. My players never knew which enemies had it and which didn't, and assumed they all did. Some of the players NOT having it made it a lot harder to protect their low AC squishy buddies. The keywords are new so the edge case in the thread never came up. I don't think it will have much impact.

Quote from: Haffrung;1098163...
But it doesn't have to overtake D&D to be a success. If even 20 per cent of 5E players buy the Pathfinder core books and a couple adventure paths, it will be a profitable game for Paizo and keep the lights on. Nothing is going to beat D&D in today's market. But being the #2 or #3 RPG isn't a failure in the booming tabletop scene.

Not a failure for most RPG companies, but Pazio has been the uncontested #2 RPG company since it took 4e to the cleaners. WOTC, Pazio, then everyone else.

PF2e will get strong initial sales. Never underestimate the desire for the new hotness! Hell, Shadowrun 6 sold out at gencon yet it is getting panned on reddit and its own forums!

Now I don't think Pazio will outright fold over the 2e failure, but in 3-5 years we should see the effects.

I would define PF2e as a failure if in 3-5 years Pazio is just another RPG company jousting for the #2-3 spots with FFG and friends.

I think it more than likely given that there is nothing in 2e that is likely to gain them the number of new converts they need to stop the bleeding 5e is giving them.

Paizo should be able to hold 2nd position for many years. I have a hard time imagining them not.

So did Paizo ever make an announcement that they had sold out of all the PF2 books they brought to Gencon, like they did with Starfinder 2 years ago, the Playtest doc last year, and the PF1 books years ago?

They did not sell out of the PF2 books because they calculated how many books that all of their cashiers could sell over the whole of Gencon and brought along even more books then that.

I do not envy the book delivery guys.

Quote from: Mistwell;1098565So did Paizo ever make an announcement that they had sold out of all the PF2 books they brought to Gencon, like they did with Starfinder 2 years ago, the Playtest doc last year, and the PF1 books years ago?

They had a small mountain of books left over.

They also had shopping charts and theme park level line management. It was packed Thursday, pretty quite Sunday.

They also had a separate pre-order pick up area, so nearly all business in the booth were con goers buying the new-hotness.

Paizo prepared for PF2e to be the #1 item. Our group won't look at the game for awhile. We kind of hate it. A few years from now they may have re-released the skald. The new srd is low-key hideous.

So someone directed me to the Amazon page.  Pathfinder Core Rules is available for a 40% discount off the list price, but is still only #2 in Hourly Sales behind the 5th edition Player's Handbook.  

For the 'new hotness', that doesn't seem like a good sign.

That is certainly a first world problem when your 'new hotness' is only the second best selling product.

I also noticed that the 5th edition Players handbook was selling at 45% discount off list price.  It is almost as if Amazon is famous for selling products at a discount off list price. :eek:

Quote from: Shasarak;1098677That is certainly a first world problem when your 'new hotness' is only the second best selling product.

I also noticed that the 5th edition Players handbook was selling at 45% discount off list price.  It is almost as if Amazon is famous for selling products at a discount off list price. :eek:

Actually the 5th edition PHB is 44% off the cover price.  I'm just curious to know what overwrought explanation you have for why it isn't doing better.  Surely not EVERYONE who was going to buy a copy went to GenCon.  

While I don't expect Pathfinder 2 to do well for a litany of reasons, I still expected it to take the #1 spot in gaming on the week of its release.  I earlier indicated that I would consider a failure to do so as a very clear portent that it is not going to do well.  So seeing it at #2 surprises me because while I didn't think it would do well, I didn't think it would do THIS BAD.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;1098679Actually the 5th edition PHB is 44% off the cover price.  I'm just curious to know what overwrought explanation you have for why it isn't doing better.  Surely not EVERYONE who was going to buy a copy went to GenCon.  

While I don't expect Pathfinder 2 to do well for a litany of reasons, I still expected it to take the #1 spot in gaming on the week of its release.  I earlier indicated that I would consider a failure to do so as a very clear portent that it is not going to do well.  So seeing it at #2 surprises me because while I didn't think it would do well, I didn't think it would do THIS BAD.

Of course you think it is doing poorly.  If it was best seller for one week then it would fail your expectations because it was not best seller for 2 weeks.

Lisa Stevens said:

Quote

QuoteDid the books sell out at GenCon?

Nope. But that was by design. We literally took more books than we could actually sell given the number of cashiers that we had there. I didn't want a repeat of the Starfinder release where we ran out on Friday. So we took quite a lot. And sold more than we have ever sold of anything at GenCon. So it was a huge success for us.

Heh, "overwrought explanations" thats rich coming from the "+1 to Riding" guy.

Sorry but after the pathfinder online fiasco where Lisa stevens was saying it was all great literally up to a day before Ryan dancey left and they laid off almost all there staff I tend to take anything she says with a big ol bag of salt.