Quote from: Snowman0147;1094257If it isn't the end the world button, then it is a fireball to the party just for the lulz.  Either way the party gets fucked over and the player will just say, "What?  It is well within my evil aligned character to do so."

I played in a tournament game (in the 80s) with a pregenerated character that was likely enough to fireball the party immediately (self included) that the tournament organizer had contingency plans to move the other players to a new table to give them a fair chance in the competition. I am still mystified how characters who would fireball the entire party on a whim made it to high enough level to cast fireballs.

Quote from: rawma;1094710I played in a tournament game (in the 80s) with a pregenerated character that was likely enough to fireball the party immediately (self included) that the tournament organizer had contingency plans to move the other players to a new table to give them a fair chance in the competition. I am still mystified how characters who would fireball the entire party on a whim made it to high enough level to cast fireballs.

Not a lot of us have tournament plays any more which I blame the satanic panic for that shit.

As for the fireball bit.  There are always sneaky fuckers waiting to troll the group and those are usually the stranger players.  Then there is a always the power of stupid.  Never underestimate the power of stupid.

Next time, make them create their characters in your presence, where you can directly lord over the direction they go to begin with.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1094721Not a lot of us have tournament plays any more which I blame the satanic panic for that shit.

As for the fireball bit.  There are always sneaky fuckers waiting to troll the group and those are usually the stranger players.  Then there is a always the power of stupid.  Never underestimate the power of stupid.

I think tournaments have waned because RPGs are intrinsically not well suited to competition. I did run a table of the 2018 D&D Open at a convention which had (team) scoring, but the trend is away from even scoring play with XP -- organized D&D play now essentially gives the same XP per hour to effective or ineffective play.

That specific tournament (it ran over several years at the same convention) was judged on "role playing": the first year I played at one table with a friend and we were both confused by the adventure - every combat could be won by a single PC, and we couldn't see what the challenge was. We learned by the end that the trick was to distinguish yourself in melodrama and histrionics, so the author of the adventure could not be certain that even two of the players would cooperate against any given obstacle.

But it wasn't just anticipating that jerks would play; the pregenerated character was explicitly described as being willing to kill himself and the rest of the party. And supposedly these characters were drawn from those in an actual campaign. How did he survive to 8th level or whatever? Dunno.

(I am not entirely proud to say that I subsequently won that tournament in another year playing an assassin magically disguised as a half-elf fighter. Openly at the table, I made exclusive alliances with three separate players, arguing that we were uniquely similar (we're both fighters! we're both non-humans! I'm half human and you're human so we need to stick together! etc.) and I was well prepared for the final intra-party battle in which I thought I would have a fair chance of killing the rest of the party; sadly, the scenario ended before it could reach that point. Was that sneaky, strange or just playing the victory conditions I was given?)

Quote from: rawma;1094750That specific tournament (it ran over several years at the same convention) was judged on "role playing": the first year I played at one table with a friend and we were both confused by the adventure - every combat could be won by a single PC, and we couldn't see what the challenge was. We learned by the end that the trick was to distinguish yourself in melodrama and histrionics, so the author of the adventure could not be certain that even two of the players would cooperate against any given obstacle.

But it wasn't just anticipating that jerks would play; the pregenerated character was explicitly described as being willing to kill himself and the rest of the party. And supposedly these characters were drawn from those in an actual campaign. How did he survive to 8th level or whatever? Dunno.

(I am not entirely proud to say that I subsequently won that tournament in another year playing an assassin magically disguised as a half-elf fighter. Openly at the table, I made exclusive alliances with three separate players, arguing that we were uniquely similar (we're both fighters! we're both non-humans! I'm half human and you're human so we need to stick together! etc.) and I was well prepared for the final intra-party battle in which I thought I would have a fair chance of killing the rest of the party; sadly, the scenario ended before it could reach that point. Was that sneaky, strange or just playing the victory conditions I was given?)

So basically World of Darkness play in which your going to have everyone backstabbing each other unless there are werewolves in which case it is tyranny from the pack alpha.  Yeah I had that barrel full of racid liquid from my ten years of dealing with that community.  I fucking left it behind and trying to make my own fork where the backstabbing can go fuck itself.

Quote from: Michele;1093888The problem probably is with the player, not the character.

Best post in thread so far. (I read to the end.)

My players could play the character and make it work, and it would be fun. YMMV

Quote from: Shasarak;1093887Yeah I can see that having a Paladin in the group could be a problem.  Maybe they could respec it as something else instead?

I would have more of a problem DMing a Dragonborn than a Paladin.

Dragon Born...

LOL

Edit. I'm not chiming in mainly because it's all be said rather nicely from the usual suspects. I find the OP's premise did make me laugh a bit, concerning the "guessing game" as to which is the problem concept.

Quote from: jeff37923;1093885No.

There may have been dick moves involved, but if you explained the campaign setting idea to the players and one still created the sociopathic artificer, then that is where the dick move is happening.

Bingo.

Quote from: pdboddy;1093902Found the dick move.

LOL

The plot of the Dragonlance novels involve the evil mage who starts out "helping" but later becomes the Ultimate Evil (IIRC). I imagine with the right group of players having one secret bad guy could work. I would really have to trust that player. Like 25+ previous sessions of experience, good rapport, a strong sense that the player is as concerned as I am with the fun of everyone...

Quote from: trechriron;1095183Bingo.



LOL

The plot of the Dragonlance novels involve the evil mage who starts out "helping" but later becomes the Ultimate Evil (IIRC).

Not quite. Raistlin starts off more as a sort of something-neutral and then drifts over the course of the tale. But overall isnt too bad a fellow. Just rather pragmatic. Time of the Twins. The second trilogy sees his descent into evil and eventual redemption. Totally worth it to see him send the kender to HELL! Dragonlance introduced the alignment drift system. So over time your character that started out say Chaotic Good might drift into neutral or even evil depending on their actions. Or someone starting out say Lawful Evil might climb up out of the pit and end up on the side of good.

But quite correct that a PC can start off a bit morally grey and then see where they go with that. The proverbial Doctor Smith sort of pendulum.

That's why during character creation I always find it important to get the players to explain why their characters are motivated to go on this adventure and to explain their bonds / loyalty with the other characters.

Quote from: LagiaDOS;1093884Is it fair for a DM to make a player redo a PC because it doesn't fit the game?

Nope, nothing wring with that at all.

If a PC just doesn't fit then you have every right to ask them to change it or use another PC.

Quote from: LagiaDOS;1093884Well, I'm getting ready for a 5e campaign, and I have the characters, but one of them doesn't fit the campaign nor the party.

So far the party consists of:

- A relatively standard dragonborn paladin, concerned on protecting the crown and helping inocent people
- A young elf mage too pure for this world
- A honorbound warrior seeking a way to restore her families honor and help people
- and... an artificier that doesn't feel anything that puts a façade of a happy person and would have no problem in hurting innocents (without killing them) in exchange for eternal life. Also he would push a button that explodes the world just for curiosity.

The objetive of the campaign is simple: kill four demons that are ravaging the world and save it, "you are the light that will clear the darkness", as they are refered in-game, as a profecy marked them as the ones that will save the world from this demons (there is a bit more to it, but it's irrelevant to this topic). They all knew this before making the characters, by the way.

What is it about the Artificier that makes the PC not fit?

If the campaign is all about slaying 4 demons, then the Artificier can presumably slay demons to gain immortality?

If the problem is with slaying of innocents, then just let the Player know that slating innocents might be too much for the game.

If the problem is happily pushing a button to destroy the world, then don't have such a button in the game.

Quote from: LagiaDOS;1093884Yeah, you can see the problem, I guess. Is it a dick move to ask him to modify the character so it fits better?

I am not sure what the problem is. If the PC was a demon-worshipper whose aim was to free the 4 demons and let them wreak havoc on the world, then I'd say it was a problem.

8 pages and the OP hasn't replied. Does SA still quote mine us?  The topic is pretty mild for a bait thread.

So. Many. Words.
Just can't tonight.
Kill the problem character. Move on.

I used to post this when I GMed on a Star Wars D6 play-by-post rpg site:

Don't play a character who is so standoffish or antisocial that he cannot or will not interact successfully with the other characters in the group. (Half the character point awards in the rulebook are from interaction and teamwork). You also might not want to pick a character species that is so obscure, notorious, disruptive, isolated, or outlandish that it will be impossible to play him.