Quote from: Omega;1094677Has anything more happened? Or did Mearls just clam up and the SJWs got bored and went looking for another target?

They might have moved on to Johnathan Tweet. And if that is any sign of things to come, then Mearls is done for.

Honestly, I have to wonder if larger companies are going to start moving away from Twitter as a means of promotion and communication.  With the medium being so volatile and people more and more understanding that there's a lot extremists on both sides gathering mobs over the slightest thing, I think you're going to see companies start disengaging from Twitter.

Twitter doesn't allow nuance, it broadcasts to the entire world and it allows people who are not even part of your interest group or market to comment.  I think even the people who've grown up with Social media always being around are getting fatigued with it.  I'm not sure the value of viral marketing will be worth the potential drawbacks.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1094508That was what I did for a couple of years when it really started to go downhill, fast.  Then I noticed that the stupid was more frequent.  Then I noticed that I stayed away longer each time.  Then one day I realized that I hadn't been there in months, had been enjoying my time away, and decided to make it permanent.

I've noticed a similar thing with TGD, as well.

There used to be a lot of interesting discussion there, but lately it's devolved into a bunch of SJW nonsense.

It also doesn't help that it's seemed to devolve into a personality cult centered around a few insufferable pricks. I didn't mind that they were insufferable when they were producing useful discussions or content, but those wells seem to have dried. If you're going to be an asshole, at least be an interesting one, otherwise I have no reason to bother.

Quote from: JRT;1094739Honestly, I have to wonder if larger companies are going to start moving away from Twitter as a means of promotion and communication.

It it follows the pattern of the last 3 decades then the answer is a resounding, abysmal. No. They wont learn because marketing NEVER learns. EVER.

Why?

I have no freaking clue! But marketing across the board in all entertainment media is so ruthlessly stupid that you have to start wondering if they are all deliberately trying to ruin brands, IPs, companies? Its some of the most ass backwards and confounding practices that after thirty years youd think theyd have figured out that these various tactics are near guarantee to failure.

But no. Marketing clings to these damn ideals as if they were holy writ from higher than god.

Quote from: Omega;1094757They wont learn because marketing NEVER learns. EVER.

If people who went into marketing were smart, they wouldn't have gotten into marketing.

If you think the marketing is dumb, wait until you meet the people who fall for it!!

Even worse, there are studies discussing how spectacularly "failed" marketing campaigns are often far more successful long term than many "good" marketing campaigns because after a certain amount of time people forget the bad marketing, but remember the product...and buy it.

Quote from: Zirunel;1094704if restaurant choice is your analogy it sounds like what you're doing is more an expression of personal taste and preference than anything I'd call a boycott. Is that what you meant all along?

What is a boycott other than personal preference?

Buying ABC makes me happy and buying XYZ makes me unhappy, so I won't buy XYZ anymore.

We may ascribe the reasons why buying ABC makes us happy and buying XYZ makes us unhappy, but we're voting with our wallet based on preferences.

Quote from: JRT;1094739Honestly, I have to wonder if larger companies are going to start moving away from Twitter as a means of promotion and communication.

That's unlikely, as #Twitter is the most viral social network in the western world, and as such it ends up embedded in #Facebook posts and #YouTube videos.

Quote from: JRT;1094739Twitter doesn't allow nuance, it broadcasts to the entire world and it allows people who are not even part of your interest group or market to comment.

Which for advertisers is a feature not a bug.

Quote from: JRT;1094739I think even the people who've grown up with Social media always being around are getting fatigued with it.  I'm not sure the value of viral marketing will be worth the potential drawbacks.

Where else are they going to go? Even #Snapchat has ads (in the form of filters you interact with, which is fiendishly clever) and behavior modification.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1094778there are studies discussing how spectacularly "failed" marketing campaigns are often far more successful long term than many "good" marketing campaigns because after a certain amount of time people forget the bad marketing, but remember the product...and buy it.

You're sadly not wrong. Modern marketing basically boils down to:

1 Do something stupid and/or controversial (deliberately or not).
2 Apologize and correct 'mistake' (making sure everybody knows about it).
3 Profit (because customers feel they made a difference).

This was new #Coke and old #Coke. This was Daniel putting penises on all the monsters in Zweihänder.

And once you become a big enough monopoly (* cough* Disney *cough*) you don't even need to do that, as you're now in a position to dictate culture values and beliefs (or so they believe) instead of listen to the anyone who disagree with your policies. Because the thing about monopolies is that they don't need to serve the customer to make a profit.

Sadly this is all gonna get a lot worse before it gets better, if it ever does.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1094787You're sadly not wrong. Modern marketing basically boils down to:

1 Do something stupid and/or controversial (deliberately or not).
2 Apologize and correct 'mistake' (making sure everybody knows about it).
3 Profit (because customers feel they made a difference).

Outrage marketing as its being called now. Except theres usually never a step 2. As it was explained to me. Marketing believes it is a viable form of free advertising. Make the product so contrary to what fans want that they raise bloody hell. This then attracts the attention of outsiders to the product who have no vested interest and thus see nothing wrong.

They tried it with 4e D&D Gamma World and failed.

The other marketing view thats been taking hold in the last 5 years is the opposite. "Fans are bad. They have expectations. This is bad and wrong."

Well, Tweet is another guy who spent a long time catering to the SJW crowd. Surprise surprise, that they'll turn on him on a dime.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1095090Well, Tweet is another guy who spent a long time catering to the SJW crowd. Surprise surprise, that they'll turn on him on a dime.

  'Catering' sounds wrong; I think Tweet is a True Believer who happens to have fallen on the wrong side of a current internal fight. You can see the thread on TBP (where he engages--quite extensively) for details.

   This is the man who used an OtE Bundle of Holding to fundraise for Planned Parenthood, and led the #Gamers4Her movement, after all.

So they just shut down the thread with a weaselly post when it turned out Tweet had not, in fact, been a raving racist. Classy.

Quote from: JRT;1094739Honestly, I have to wonder if larger companies are going to start moving away from Twitter as a means of promotion and communication.  With the medium being so volatile and people more and more understanding that there's a lot extremists on both sides gathering mobs over the slightest thing, I think you're going to see companies start disengaging from Twitter.

I'm not sure they'll disengage from Twitter, but the smarter companies will recognize the reality that Twitter does not reflect their customer-base. This is a surprisingly difficult thing for people to recognize, because we're hardwired to think in terms of communities of a few hundred people. That's why 200 or 300 people expressing outrage about something on Twitter can feel like a popular groundswell. Especially to decision-makers who are themselves extremely online and deeply embedded in social media communities.

It will take time, but there's enough data out there, and enough money riding on getting these things right, that we'll eventually come to grips with just how tiny and unrepresentative those two or three hundred (or even two or three thousand) people are in the wider market. You cannot extrapolate that each one represents hundreds of silent customers, because it's becoming evident that the extremely online culture warriors who agitate on social media are not anywhere close to a random sampling of the market. There's little reason to think their online outrage translates into lost sales in the wider world.

For now it's frustrating to see companies kowtow to tiny pockets of outrage. And I expect small companies that lack real market data and where the principals are themselves extremely online will take longer to recognize reality. But I do think the consumer market will ultimately sort this out.

Quote from: Haffrung;1095122I'm not sure they'll disengage from Twitter, but the smarter companies will recognize the reality that Twitter does not reflect their customer-base. This is a surprisingly difficult thing for people to recognize, because we're hardwired to think in terms of communities of a few hundred people. That's why 200 or 300 people expressing outrage about something on Twitter can feel like a popular groundswell.

You must also remember that the RPG world (in the sense of people that actually play and buy game, i.e sales figures) out of a customer-base 0.5-1 million 100-200 mid-profile people are actually pretty influential. However most of them don't even play D&D and ofc WotC execs might not know that.

Quote from: A5paperboy;1095125You must also remember that the RPG world (in the sense of people that actually play and buy game, i.e sales figures) out of a customer-base 0.5-1 million 100-200 mid-profile people are actually pretty influential.

Are they? I'd guess 90+ per cent of people who play RPGs never visit online forums or follow industry insider Twitter feeds. And of those who do, I'd be willing to bet most take "a pox on both their houses" stance towards the Culture Warz. It's a fraction of a fraction of the market who care about any of this shit.

Quote from: Haffrung;1095131Are they? I'd guess 90+ per cent of people who play RPGs never visit online forums or follow industry insider Twitter feeds. And of those who do, I'd be willing to bet most take "a pox on both their houses" stance towards the Culture Warz. It's a fraction of a fraction of the market who care about any of this shit.

This is exactly true.  I've played with multiple groups, and run multiple groups.  I am the only one I know who visits forums or knows RPG history.  They just want to create characters and go on adventures.  They do not care about this shit.