A little bit of buy-in to the themes of the game is a player responsibility, and I believe it should be encouraged. I like how D6 Star Wars pretty much said "You guys are rebels. Do Rebel Alliance stuff."

Perhaps relatedly, I preface the Quickstart of the Knights of the Black Lily RPG with stating that playing the game makes only sense if you have enough player buy-in into the game premise: you want to go on adventure as if you were a fictional protagonist. That means (my fav example) if you aim at playing epic heroes, you generally don't go and collect the swords of fallen enemies to sell them on the market (unless it's a special sword, of course). Jon Snow didn't do that in GoT, nor anyone from the fellowship of the ring.

If you, as the GM, don't have the sincere(!) player buy-in that they'll try to act as those fictional heroes/protagonists, then it makes no sense using a game system that has been carefully designed to emulate fiction. Because what's the point of taking away a Fortune Point away from the party for not playing their part if they go "You know what? Screw Fortune Points, screw acting like a fictional protag, we'll just do whatever the fuck we want to"?

If you don't subscribe to the games tagline "Challenge within genre bounds", you're frankly better off playing another game system.

EDIT: Perhaps this can be generalized to other games as well - players should understand the theme of a campaign (whether as determined by the GM or by group consensus) and have a healthy attitude towards it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1089802Looking over RPGs books, there are often laundry lists of everything the GM must (or should) do to make sure the game runs smoothly. Should there be an equivalent player section in the book that delineates what players should bring to the table other than their asses?

Yes!

But given how childishly defensive RPG players get when told what to do, I'm not sure how useful it would actually be, as they may just do the opposite out of spite.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1089802Any RPGs do a good breakdown of expectations of players?

Not to my satisfaction.

QUOTE=Spinachcat;1089802]And what do YOU think should be discussed as "player responsibilities" or "expectations" upon them?[/QUOTE]

First and foremost: It's just as much your responsibility to make the experience enjoyable for everyone as it is the GM's.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1089831Don't pirate copies of the rules. So many players refuse to pay for games. I stopped using Discord because rooms are filled with pirates.

I'd rather people pirate than not play.

Quote from: soltakss;1089984I don't see anything that tells me how to play cards smoothly, or chess, or Monopoly or other games, so why RPGs?

Because strategy games are inherently competitive and don't make an issue out of sexuality, beliefs, or values.

Quote from: tenbones;1089996That's precisely why I show up to Monopoly games in my pin-stripe suit, doing my best Gordon Gekko impression, with a bunch of cocaine, cigars and whiskey...

And *every* single time it ends up pissing off the other players who tell me I don't get it.

I don't understand.

Neither do I, as this is the right way to play, especially when streaming.

Quote from: tenbones;1090012So you agree with the GM that requires a full body-cavity search before and after each game-session?

Only for con games.

Quote from: soltakss;1089984I don't see anything that tells me how to play cards smoothly, or chess, or Monopoly or other games, so why RPGs?

For reasons I can't readily fathom, the same people who seem capable of playing cards, chess and Monopoly smoothly suddenly shit themselves with the stupids in a RPG.

Maybe its the expectation that the host opens the box and the rules to what you do in the card game or board game are so explicit.

Also, perhaps because there is little to no immersion with other games. How invested do people get with their top hat icon or set of meeples?

Quote from: Antiquation!;10898941. Be on time.

2. Be on time.

3. Please bring your own writing utensil; dice too if you have them.

4. Don't be a bitch or a crybaby when (when, NOT 'if') something doesn't turn out exactly the way you expect it to.

5. BE ON FUCKING TIME.

6. If you're not going to be able to come or you're going to be late give as much warning as you can to all involved.

7. You're a guest in someones' house, act accordingly. Be clean, dress in not too knackered clothes, bring snacks or drinks to share.

To me this all seems basic civilized behaviour but you'd be amazed how many people think gamer = excused from civilized behaviour.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1089831Don't pirate copies of the rules. So many players refuse to pay for games. I stopped using Discord because rooms are filled with pirates.

That'll learn 'em.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1089802Looking over RPGs books, there are often laundry lists of everything the GM must (or should) do to make sure the game runs smoothly. Should there be an equivalent player section in the book that delineates what players should bring to the table other than their asses?

Any RPGs do a good breakdown of expectations of players?

And what do YOU think should be discussed as "player responsibilities" or "expectations" upon them?

I think that players only need follow the social norms.  I think everything boils down to don't be an asshole, remember that you're a guest in someone's house, play well with others, stay off your cellphone, etc.

Quote from: Altheus;1091842To me this all seems basic civilized behaviour but you'd be amazed how many people think gamer = excused from civilized behaviour.

Indeed.

As a matter of fact I have actually observed widespread idolatry of the "gross geek" culture here, where some are actually proud of going to publicly organized play groups as disheveled, unkempt and disgusting as possible (stained sweatpants, greasy hair, bad smells and wolf shirts everywhere!). There are tables full of them at the mall here, and they plague the local game store like a disease (it's why I never got into Magic the Gathering [thank god!]).

This isn't even mere conjecture, on multiple occasions years ago when I was still inviting these types to my groups this worship of the "gross geek" figure was observable. One would make a point of eating as loudly and disgustingly as possible as a "joke" until the table, dice and sheets would be stained with grease (as well as his shirt, which he used as a napkin for both his hands and mouth, proudly showing us his disgusting gut as he did); another would on multiple occasions proudly state he woke up "late" (at 4 PM...) and that he hadn't had the "chance to shower the last couple days" (on top of which, he worked in a sweltering Mexican food truck; oh, the aroma!).

I will never understand the glorification of "geek culture" in general, but particularly these types. At least the people who went to see Endgame 15 times to try to get it to gross more than Avatar and line their walls with Funko Pops probably showered on the same days as the showings.

"Expectations and Responsibilities" might be a bit much. (There's a case to be made -- reductionist, but not wholly inaccurate -- that people who have already mastered the basic expectations and responsibilities of social courtesy tend not to get into RPGs in the first place.)

Recommendations, however -- e.g., "Nobody's going to bust you for not doing this stuff, but in our experience it makes most games smoother and more fun"  -- seldom go amiss.

If a particular game is designed to reward some approaches over others, make sure the players are told that right up front, for example. Carrots are always a better sales technique than sticks.

Quote from: jeff37923;1089835A classier alternative to the dice tray is the dice cup. It is usually just a tough leather cup with a felt lining inside. From browsing, I've seen some pretty cool looking personalized ones with images embossed in the leather.

I have one that my father used to play dice games when he was young.

It's likely older than I am, and still going strong.

Keep your head out of your cell phone, unless you are actually looking up pertinent in-game information.  I suppose if your wife could go into labor at any time, it's ok for you to keep an eye on your phone.  People goofing off on facebook at the gaming table, is quite simply BS.  If you're looking at your phone, at least use it to benefit the game at hand.

Quote from: pdboddy;1091845I think everything boils down to don't be an asshole,

I wish our species was cool enough just to have the one law: Be Excellent to Each Other!

Quote from: Antiquation!;1091860As a matter of fact I have actually observed widespread idolatry of the "gross geek" culture here, where some are actually proud of going to publicly organized play groups as disheveled, unkempt and disgusting as possible (stained sweatpants, greasy hair, bad smells and wolf shirts everywhere!). There are tables full of them at the mall here, and they plague the local game store like a disease (it's why I never got into Magic the Gathering [thank god!]).

That...is...gross.

The store is stupid for allowing stankyass imbeciles.

I've never seen this phenomena. I haven't smelled a stinky at a con for years now, but maybe I've just been lucky.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1093126I've never seen this phenomena. I haven't smelled a stinky at a con for years now, but maybe I've just been lucky.

You've been lucky.

Engage with the premise, if you can't with the premise, don't bother showing up, ideally say, it's a premise you can't engage with and don't show up, don't deliberately wreck the game for everyone by deliberately derailing the premise.

Also, gaming stores should really have a shower.  A big guy on a hot day who rides the bus half way across town is gonna stink by the time he arrives whether he showered first or not.  Mine doesn't but damnit, it'd be good to have one in the next location, and air conditioning and a merry go round.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1093126That...is...gross.

The store is stupid for allowing stankyass imbeciles.

I've never seen this phenomena. I haven't smelled a stinky at a con for years now, but maybe I've just been lucky.

To be fair I currently live in the Seattle area, so this phenomenon is fairly concentrated here. But I do think you should count your lucky stars on this one; it's hardly contained to this state (I had similar experiences in Houston, although in those instances oddly it was mainly unwashed and loud females). If you live in another country I wouldn't know a single thing about it.

I suspect the stores allow them because it's their primary means of financial stability. I would allow them too if a bunch of greasy, smelly people came in to buy MtG boosters off my shelves in droves.